Chest Shop

[☣2crzy4uall☣]

Shops are pointless now that vanilla ones can be made.

[frobalt]

Shops are pointless now that vanilla ones can be made.

I completely disagree.

Do you know why currency, such as the pound and dollar, is used? It's because it is a common thing that people want. Without it, you have to trade items for other items, which isn't as easy to do as you might want something from someone else but they don't want what you have.

That is the same for real life as it is in minecraft - There is no currency in vanilla minecraft, so vanilla shops deal with trading items.

Sure, you can make people pay with an item that can be sold on the market, but then you're placing a limit on your customers somewhat, as they have to use that item to pay. It also over-complicates the process as it makes it harder to estimate the actual price of goods in $s, for both seller and buyer, which also makes it harder to compare prices between merchants. Personally, the currency I use is stone and gravel, depending on how expensive I deem an item.

Also, there is the building process of a vanilla shop - As far as I am aware, all designs require nether quartz, which is easy enough to acquire on a fresh nether, but not so easy to acquire on the nether we have, as you have to go very far out to even get any, which takes quite a while. The designs of vanilla shops take up far more space than a chest shop from a plugin, and these plugin chest shops are much easier to build.

I'm of the opinion that the reasons against chest shops are flimsy; The main argument posed against them is that they could be spammed everywhere, but surely chests can be spammed everywhere as they are anyway?

Although, I'm under the impression that this opposition is raised purely for aesthetic reasons; IE, the people in charge don't want to see loads of chest shops everywhere as it wouldn't look so good. I am unsure of how the chest shop plugins work though, so is it for performance reasons or do the chest shops take up as much storage space as the sign and chests would by themselves?

It's worth noting that these vanilla chest shops can also be place anywhere. The design I use is fairly compact and would be easy enough to build out in the open so people could shop there

I know my opinions alone won't change the minds of the people in charge here, but I've seen it pointed out that this suggestion has been brought up quite a lot, which shows there is demand for such a system to be in place.

Overall, I can see adding chest shops as only being a good thing;
It will make trading more secure as the process of receiving an item and paying for it are done at the same time.
It will encourage more people to open shops and therefore make the server more social.

Sure, you'll get someone that will try and use the system to grief, but that will be the case with most features, and you can't make everything 100% grief proof unfortunately. All you can do is punish those that do grief.

[DeeKay]

If we needed them, I think Nick, Nyssa, or Relkeb would have stepped in at some point and said so.
The points you make are true, but it comes down to how far we want to push the survival wall we have around the server (whatever's left of it)

Without looking at the pros and the cons, which it seems every suggestion topic is, a better question is, is it exactly essential right now? Do we really need it?

[Mr_Mr_Mr]

Shops are pointless now that vanilla ones can be made.

(click to show/hide)

I completely disagree.

Do you know why currency, such as the pound and dollar, is used? It's because it is a common thing that people want. Without it, you have to trade items for other items, which isn't as easy to do as you might want something from someone else but they don't want what you have.

That is the same for real life as it is in minecraft - There is no currency in vanilla minecraft, so vanilla shops deal with trading items.

Sure, you can make people pay with an item that can be sold on the market, but then you're placing a limit on your customers somewhat, as they have to use that item to pay. It also over-complicates the process as it makes it harder to estimate the actual price of goods in $s, for both seller and buyer, which also makes it harder to compare prices between merchants. Personally, the currency I use is stone and gravel, depending on how expensive I deem an item.

Also, there is the building process of a vanilla shop - As far as I am aware, all designs require nether quartz, which is easy enough to acquire on a fresh nether, but not so easy to acquire on the nether we have, as you have to go very far out to even get any, which takes quite a while. The designs of vanilla shops take up far more space than a chest shop from a plugin, and these plugin chest shops are much easier to build.

I'm of the opinion that the reasons against chest shops are flimsy; The main argument posed against them is that they could be spammed everywhere, but surely chests can be spammed everywhere as they are anyway?

Although, I'm under the impression that this opposition is raised purely for aesthetic reasons; IE, the people in charge don't want to see loads of chest shops everywhere as it wouldn't look so good. I am unsure of how the chest shop plugins work though, so is it for performance reasons or do the chest shops take up as much storage space as the sign and chests would by themselves?

It's worth noting that these vanilla chest shops can also be place anywhere. The design I use is fairly compact and would be easy enough to build out in the open so people could shop there

I know my opinions alone won't change the minds of the people in charge here, but I've seen it pointed out that this suggestion has been brought up quite a lot, which shows there is demand for such a system to be in place.

Overall, I can see adding chest shops as only being a good thing;
It will make trading more secure as the process of receiving an item and paying for it are done at the same time.
It will encourage more people to open shops and therefore make the server more social.

Sure, you'll get someone that will try and use the system to grief, but that will be the case with most features, and you can't make everything 100% grief proof unfortunately. All you can do is punish those that do grief.

That is one hell of an argument you're got there, how old are you?

[2468avc]

Yes frobalt, but why would this make the server better? We have an economy. All plugin chestshops would do would be to be able to get money, and pretty soon all the chestshops will be empty. That's the difference between a vanilla chestshop and a plugin one. You have to stock vanilla shops but not plugin ones.

This suggestion is just here to try and make gameplay easier, which is why I am against it.

[frobalt]

If we needed them, I think Nick, Nyssa, or Relkeb would have stepped in at some point and said so.
The points you make are true, but it comes down to how far we want to push the survival wall we have around the server (whatever's left of it)

Without looking at the pros and the cons, which it seems every suggestion topic is, a better question is, is it exactly essential right now? Do we really need it?

I wouldn't say we 'need' it per se, just that it'd be a nice feature to have that would improve trading on this server.

Shops are pointless now that vanilla ones can be made.

(click to show/hide)

I completely disagree.

Do you know why currency, such as the pound and dollar, is used? It's because it is a common thing that people want. Without it, you have to trade items for other items, which isn't as easy to do as you might want something from someone else but they don't want what you have.

That is the same for real life as it is in minecraft - There is no currency in vanilla minecraft, so vanilla shops deal with trading items.

Sure, you can make people pay with an item that can be sold on the market, but then you're placing a limit on your customers somewhat, as they have to use that item to pay. It also over-complicates the process as it makes it harder to estimate the actual price of goods in $s, for both seller and buyer, which also makes it harder to compare prices between merchants. Personally, the currency I use is stone and gravel, depending on how expensive I deem an item.

Also, there is the building process of a vanilla shop - As far as I am aware, all designs require nether quartz, which is easy enough to acquire on a fresh nether, but not so easy to acquire on the nether we have, as you have to go very far out to even get any, which takes quite a while. The designs of vanilla shops take up far more space than a chest shop from a plugin, and these plugin chest shops are much easier to build.

I'm of the opinion that the reasons against chest shops are flimsy; The main argument posed against them is that they could be spammed everywhere, but surely chests can be spammed everywhere as they are anyway?

Although, I'm under the impression that this opposition is raised purely for aesthetic reasons; IE, the people in charge don't want to see loads of chest shops everywhere as it wouldn't look so good. I am unsure of how the chest shop plugins work though, so is it for performance reasons or do the chest shops take up as much storage space as the sign and chests would by themselves?

It's worth noting that these vanilla chest shops can also be place anywhere. The design I use is fairly compact and would be easy enough to build out in the open so people could shop there

I know my opinions alone won't change the minds of the people in charge here, but I've seen it pointed out that this suggestion has been brought up quite a lot, which shows there is demand for such a system to be in place.

Overall, I can see adding chest shops as only being a good thing;
It will make trading more secure as the process of receiving an item and paying for it are done at the same time.
It will encourage more people to open shops and therefore make the server more social.

Sure, you'll get someone that will try and use the system to grief, but that will be the case with most features, and you can't make everything 100% grief proof unfortunately. All you can do is punish those that do grief.

That is one hell of an argument you're got there, how old are you?

I'm 22.

Yes frobalt, but why would this make the server better? We have an economy. All plugin chestshops would do would be to be able to get money, and pretty soon all the chestshops will be empty. That's the difference between a vanilla chestshop and a plugin one. You have to stock vanilla shops but not plugin ones.

This suggestion is just here to try and make gameplay easier, which is why I am against it.

I'd hope that any good chest shop plugin would only allow you to sell items if you have it in a chest nearby. The only (functional) difference between a (good) chest shop plugin and vanilla chest should should be that you are using a common currency rather than an item. 1 chest shop plugin I checked out forces you to fill the chest anyway. Is there 1 that doesn't?

[andersad]

Shops are pointless now that vanilla ones can be made.

(click to show/hide)

I completely disagree.

Do you know why currency, such as the pound and dollar, is used? It's because it is a common thing that people want. Without it, you have to trade items for other items, which isn't as easy to do as you might want something from someone else but they don't want what you have.

That is the same for real life as it is in minecraft - There is no currency in vanilla minecraft, so vanilla shops deal with trading items.

Sure, you can make people pay with an item that can be sold on the market, but then you're placing a limit on your customers somewhat, as they have to use that item to pay. It also over-complicates the process as it makes it harder to estimate the actual price of goods in $s, for both seller and buyer, which also makes it harder to compare prices between merchants. Personally, the currency I use is stone and gravel, depending on how expensive I deem an item.

Also, there is the building process of a vanilla shop - As far as I am aware, all designs require nether quartz, which is easy enough to acquire on a fresh nether, but not so easy to acquire on the nether we have, as you have to go very far out to even get any, which takes quite a while. The designs of vanilla shops take up far more space than a chest shop from a plugin, and these plugin chest shops are much easier to build.

I'm of the opinion that the reasons against chest shops are flimsy; The main argument posed against them is that they could be spammed everywhere, but surely chests can be spammed everywhere as they are anyway?

Although, I'm under the impression that this opposition is raised purely for aesthetic reasons; IE, the people in charge don't want to see loads of chest shops everywhere as it wouldn't look so good. I am unsure of how the chest shop plugins work though, so is it for performance reasons or do the chest shops take up as much storage space as the sign and chests would by themselves?

It's worth noting that these vanilla chest shops can also be place anywhere. The design I use is fairly compact and would be easy enough to build out in the open so people could shop there

I know my opinions alone won't change the minds of the people in charge here, but I've seen it pointed out that this suggestion has been brought up quite a lot, which shows there is demand for such a system to be in place.

Overall, I can see adding chest shops as only being a good thing;
It will make trading more secure as the process of receiving an item and paying for it are done at the same time.
It will encourage more people to open shops and therefore make the server more social.

Sure, you'll get someone that will try and use the system to grief, but that will be the case with most features, and you can't make everything 100% grief proof unfortunately. All you can do is punish those that do grief.

That is one hell of an argument you're got there, how old are you?

     Lol Ikr.

[Nick3306]

As I have said before, Optical, Relkeb, and I decided quite a while ago that we were not going to use any chest shop plugin unless we could find away to prevent spam. That still holds true to this very day.

[ViperZeroOne]

Well, I absolutely see Nick's point.  This plugin would allow people to basically just put a whole bunch of stores all over the map which isn't very fetching to see.  I don't agree that it makes SMP any easier, because people still have to earn money to buy the items and the store managers still have to keep the stores stocked with items.  Do we need it right now?  Well, I'm going to say a strong maybe since I do see a lot of chat messages with people asking for items that aren't available in the server market.

I do respect the decision you guys have made on this plugin in the past, but if the only reason to say "no" is due to not wanting shops popping up all over the place then you may need to revisit that decision.  You can now build stores using vanilla methods and redstone.  If not built properly however, these stores can easily rip off players where-as the plugin has more control to prevent that from happening.  In addition, these redstone shops (some of which use clocks) might be a higher resource hog than a simple plugin.  Regardless weather or not you allow the plugin you're going to start to see stores popping up around the map, which is why I thought the topic might need a revisit.

At any rate, I will still respect whatever decision is made on the subject.

[Chief149]

Perhaps there could be some sort of player trade plugin made? Instead of chest shops, how about a server chat-based market. You can list stuff for sale or auction, and others can buy or bid.

The only time the plugin would ever send data through chat would be when sending data to players using the commands. No chat spam, no chest shop spam everywhere.

[Mr_Mr_Mr]

Perhaps there could be some sort of player trade plugin made? Instead of chest shops, how about a server chat-based market. You can list stuff for sale or auction, and others can buy or bid.

The only time the plugin would ever send data through chat would be when sending data to players using the commands. No chat spam, no chest shop spam everywhere.

We basically already have this on the forums.

Edit: I believe the decision is made once again so I'm going to lock the topic.