Market Update

[tankermide]

Well, I guess I'll say something now.
I myself, have spent many hours on my iron farm.  I have also made a large amount of money from the farm.
You would not know it bye looking at my /bal b/c one reason.  I love helping others.  I give most of my money away, I currently have $1.  I log so many hours on this game to make sure everyone has the best experience they can have.  I spend a lot of time trying to roll back old guest b/c i hear thats what ppl want.  Of the last 19 hrs or so of playing, I probably spent about 20 mins actually building or playing for myself.  So to sit here and read all these comments bashing staff got me a little heated.  We do not get paid, and we are here for the best interest of the guest, members, and trusted players.  So if you think the staff is out to ruin your exp, then I am truly sorry you feel that way.  I believe this decision will greatly improve Opticraft as a whole.  Keep up the good work Nick. 

And this is where I will break down why I support this decision.

1.) there is a ridiculous amount of money on this server.
     a.)  The market was put in place as a last resort to sell to, or buy from.  Thats why the buy price is really high, and the sell price is very low.  Trading w/ others was always the priority. (correct me if I'm wrong Nick)
     b.)  Thats why I think the farms exploited the original intent of the market.
     c.)  By selling to the market, only more money is being poured into the economy (like printing bills w/out the resources to back it up)
     d.)  The countermeasure to the "new money" is no were near strong enough to keep up. (the lottery)
2.) You say you want to compete to be /baltop1, heres your chance, step up your game and EARN it.  There are countless ways to earn money that doesn't involve having MC in the background as you watch TV and tap spacebar ever 5 mins... If you like competition, then compete for it.  AFKing is not competition...
3.) 

It's not like Nick said "hold my beer, I'm gonna take ingots off the market."  He spent a lot of time in this decision and the staff channel debated it with him there and offline.  I guess what I'm trying to say is.  Feel free to give your opinion. but do it with at least a shred of respect.  I think Nick showed respect by hearing everyone out, but instead ppl are shitting on him for making a move WE feel is best for the server.

[hammysandwhich]

Well, I guess I'll say something now.
I myself, have spent many hours on my iron farm.  I have also made a large amount of money from the farm.
You would not know it bye looking at my /bal b/c one reason.  I love helping others.  I give most of my money away, I currently have $1.  I log so many hours on this game to make sure everyone has the best experience they can have.  I spend a lot of time trying to roll back old guest b/c i hear thats what ppl want.  Of the last 19 hrs or so of playing, I probably spent about 20 mins actually building or playing for myself.  So to sit here and read all these comments bashing staff got me a little heated.  We do not get paid, and we are here for the best interest of the guest, members, and trusted players.  So if you think the staff is out to ruin your exp, then I am truly sorry you feel that way.  I believe this decision will greatly improve Opticraft as a whole.  Keep up the good work Nick. 

And this is where I will break down why I support this decision.

1.) there is a ridiculous amount of money on this server.
     a.)  The market was put in place as a last resort to sell to, or buy from.  Thats why the buy price is really high, and the sell price is very low.  Trading w/ others was always the priority. (correct me if I'm wrong Nick)
     b.)  Thats why I think the farms exploited the original intent of the market.
     c.)  By selling to the market, only more money is being poured into the economy (like printing bills w/out the resources to back it up)
     d.)  The countermeasure to the "new money" is no were near strong enough to keep up. (the lottery)
2.) You say you want to compete to be /baltop1, heres your chance, step up your game and EARN it.  There are countless ways to earn money that doesn't involve having MC in the background as you watch TV and tap spacebar ever 5 mins... If you like competition, then compete for it.  AFKing is not competition...
3.) 

It's not like Nick said "hold my beer, I'm gonna take ingots off the market."  He spent a lot of time in this decision and the staff channel debated it with him there and offline.  I guess what I'm trying to say is.  Feel free to give your opinion. but do it with at least a shred of respect.  I think Nick showed respect by hearing everyone out, but instead ppl are shitting on him for making a move WE feel is best for the server.

Couldn't be bothered to read it all, so I'll just leave this '+1' here....
+1

[Lando_V]

To Felix_De_Kat

(click to show/hide)

Thanks for replying, Felix, and especially for the way you did it.
Not many players can handle critique and keep their replies civilized at the same time.




Ok let's get this out of the way first...

in your opinion...

Of course in my opinion, I stated that several times and otherwise I wouldn't write it.



Now back on topic:

Some people are happy to run around a field doing nothing all day long

Then they shouldn't be cheering: "Yes! Good move Nick, remove iron and gold from the market!"
Oh but are they? Yes, imo they are. They're definitely NOT the ones with big farms.

Who cares?

All the players whining about not having enough money in Minecraft should care. Because:

"This is MINECRAFT!!"

Everyone can be rich in Minecraft if they're not lazy.

afterward.. ZERO effort!

So? Who cares? Afterward, I have NEVER been doing nothing, I've always attacked the next challenge. Far away out of range of the previous one. Even now, while extending my ironfarm, I'm far out of range of my goldfarm and most of the ironfarm.
So again, who cares that there would be (near) zero effort for finished farms?
If afk-ing is the problem then THAT should be tackled specifically because most players don't sit back when they have finished a farm.


That was the "afterward", now back to before a farm is finished.

Your quotes:

No, but...
ok.. but
ok, you lost me now...
Ahhh, wait... ok, I gottcha... your gold farm.. ok... go on..

Cool, I'm glad you got the part that it is in fact an INCREDIBLE amount of work to build farms of this size.

You're doing it wrong then!

I think you misunderstood this part;
While you're building a farm it does produce! But not nearly enough to cover the expenses of the materials you need to finish it.
If you need help building a farm just ask, I've helped quite a few people already.


Ok, now this:

...they take up too much valuable space on the server

You're staff....and you complain about the lack of space on the server.
Then I replied that abandoned structures are the problem, not farms.
And then you say this...

Have you spoken to any Staff members about the possibility of removing some of the abandoned structures?

Sorry, but didn't 'they' just do that?

  ("that" being the adding of new land to the server.)

They just added land and you complain about "the lack of space". I guess "they" haven't added enough land for you? And when I say they should add more land then you say: "but didn't 'they' just do that?".

You complain about the lack of space and I should go speak to someone about it?
You're staff, I'm not, you complain about the lack of space...and I'm the one that should go talk to staff about your problem?
This must not get any crazier than it already is...

Yes you can have "infinate" money. As long as your balance remains above zero..

That's not infinite money.
First, you cannot have a balance below zero on this server. So your arguement that your money is infinite as long as your balance (unless it's exactly zero) is above zero, which it always is, is nonsense.
Second, if you have a balance of 1 dollar you cannot buy a PS. Infinite would mean I could buy infinite amounts of PS's. Which of course would be ridiculous.
So again, infinite money does not exist.

But people DO buy your "stuff".. I have made more sales in both gold and iron over the past few days than I have ever sold to the market...

But it isn't nearly as effective as selling to the market. Even with a big price difference.

I've never sold ANYTHING to the market, ever!

Neither have I, nor have I sold anything to players, ever.

Eughhh... you were doing so well...

On the contrary, the info I gave that you refer to here could be regarded as completely obsolete.
However the critique following it could make the server a better place.

Do you mean that you love the server, but I hate it at the same time?

I don't hate anything about the server, I love it!
But the claim that it is a survival server is of course false as long as there is a market and monetary system.
I haven't used those (yet) so...what's there to hate?

Changes do affect a lot of people though.
And I must not forget to mention that this server does have it's limitations in gamemechanics...but that's normal.

Pretty sure you'll find that most of us already think that "/baltop" IS a joke.

I couldn't agree more, it's a mix of people that have accumulated money slowly over time, people that have donated a lot, and people that have made a lot of money with farms.
What's the right way? I don't think there is one. So indeed.../baltop is a joke. Especially now that only one group, the one with farms, is being nerfed.

It would not be beneficial to the players who have donated (like me) to have our balances zeroed because people will always try to find a way (round the system) to make more and more money..

Neither would it be beneficial for players to take their source of income away from them.
Added to that, quite a few people have already made millions upon millions with gold/iron farms and they're quite high on /baltop or they have already bought great amounts of PS's, beacons etc.
How is it fair in any way to let /baltop be as it is....and remove iron and gold now, now that a certain group has already enriched themselves with it?!

Wait, what? Why exactly do 'they', the people that have iron/gold farms deserve less disappointment than someone who doesn't?

Wait, what? Are people without iron/gold farms disappointed too?
Only the ones with farms are disappointed and they don't deserve this after their hard work.

Yes! I agree. Connect a system up to their computers that as soon as they go afk, they get burnt with a drop of acid. Joking aside; The afk kicker has been put in place, but people, for whatever reason, probably because they (some people) just don't know how to 'play fair', or maybe they find it impossible to join in with the community and just want to stand there (or pay someone else to stand there and afk) so at the end of the day they can say "Look at me. I'M RICH" with their fake Minecraft money.. Who knows.. I wouldn't know, I only go afk for food/comfort breaks/or when I fall asleep at 5am at my desk.

Exactly my point. I only afk for the same reasons you do.
Unfortunately, taking iron and gold from the market doesn't specifically tackle the real problem you mentioned and a lot of players will be disappointed.

And, what's next? What will be removed next?

I try to cheat my way through and donate for my in-game money so I can buy blocks

Lazy!


Again, thanks for your reply.
And see you ingame!

Lando

[Lando_V]

I'll just keep it simple this time.

b.)  Thats why I think the farms exploited the original intent of the market.

Farms have always been part of Minecraft. The Market has not.
It is in fact the market that is undermining a certain part of the game now, farms.
And farms just happen to be one of the most entertaining parts of minecraft.

You and I both know that most people building farms do it for the money.
If afk-ing is the problem then do something about afk-ing.
Don't nerf the game in other areas.

[TarynMai]

Lando, there's a modify button. Please use it and stop double posting.

[DeeKay]

Let's quote every sentence, that's a great idea.

[Lando_V]

Lando, there's a modify button. Please use it and stop double posting.

Excuse me? I know how to modify a post thank you, I did earlier in this topic.
But where did I double post?
I posted twice above here, 2 completely different posts.
One adressed to Felix and the other to tankermide but that one is more in general.

If I did then please point out where I double posted.

[RuthlessTomato]

(click to show/hide)

Hey Nick way to ruin life. I tease. Lets start off by saying "Damn, This has been a fun journey reading the sheer unfiltered stupidity that flows from the minds of some of you all, and the staff using calm cool responses to return what I see as ass kicking return swings. Way to be the bigger people here, If i still were staff I cant say I would have been polite to all you who bash people who don't get paid to put up with your shit. The staff is kick ass. Chief (there are more people who deserve this too so throw yourselves into the mix) You are king of DumbAss city. Its cool tho, no offense
See what I did right there. I made everything OK by saying no offense. Staff your killing it(in the good way). To all those complaining about the injustice do me a favor(In the words of my father the day my parrot died) Cry me a river, Build a bridge, And for the love of god get the fuck over it. This is a game. You shouldn't have an emotional downturn because a rule in a game changed. And back to Chief, You argue with the single most stupid points I have ever had the misfortune of reading. This is still a game. I pity what your life must be if your whole mindset is focused on the money you wont be making from the life you have built ingame.

That is just a short from my mind. I might compose a detailed list of why i think staff is awesome, and why a select few others should probably find a new hobby

With Love
Weirauch

Not having an emotional downturn. Just pissed that this server that I spent many hours on has just gone down like this because of how the rules have repeatedly changed for the worse.

Some people here would have used the money made off of farms for building cool things, since they would have the money necessary to fund their projects.
Speaking of projects, people here have built the coolest stuff, but not everyone is about building the coolest looking stuff. I saw one player who posted his mining achievements in the forums a couple times. He mined hundreds of diamonds, and tons of other incredibly high amounts of resources. I'm hoping he wasn't using Xray, and his statement was that he was a terrible builder and wanted to show off what he did well, which was mining. In my case, and probably in the case of many others, we prefer our building achievements to be more for function. For people like me, it isn't about building the best looking, but rather taking the game mechanics as far as they'll go, and building something productive and functional, and making it large. When I see the large farm systems some people make, I'm just amazed by how neat it all is with the intricate redstone systems, the size of the farm collection system itself, etc. In this case I was hoping to build one of the largest gold farms on the server, and a few other larger functional systems, but now I really have no reason to build any of them because they would serve no purpose, and it hasn't been until after spending countless hours on all of this stuff that the function of the things I have spent building have become fairly useless.

You say they have become fairly useless, and I agree with that. But do you think a giant castle built out of redstone and quartz blocks is "useful"? I didn't think so.

(click to show/hide)

Lando, there's a modify button. Please use it and stop double posting.

Excuse me? I know how to modify a post thank you, I did earlier in this topic.
But where did I double post?
I posted twice above here, 2 completely different posts.
One adressed to Felix and the other to tankermide but that one is more in general.

If I did then please point out where I double posted.

Technically any post that is posted on by the same person twice counts as a double post. You are supposed to fit the 2 together.

[Lando_V]

I always thought that when you post the same post twice, by accident or on purpose, that counts as a double post.

But maybe I should have waited for someone else to post before I posted the next one?

[RuthlessTomato]

I always thought that when you post the same post twice, by accident or on purpose, that counts as a double post.

But maybe I should have waited for someone else to post before I posted the next one?

the modify button alicia brought up would yield the same result.

[TarynMai]

You could lose the additude, I wasn't trying to be a bitch to you or anything, but you're never supposed to double post.

[Lando_V]

Understood, I apologise.

[FNVcourierjon(SigilStone)]

Chief, sorry but who cares about having he biggest iron farm on the server.  It's not like it's a creative mega build.

[Felix]

@ Lando_V

I'm not going to reply to the majority of what was written, otherwise we're just going to be going round in circles here with both differences of opinion.. But what I will say is...

A/ I know how much work goes in to gold and iron farms, I have;
1 gold farm in the Nether
1 gold farm at New Arenae (inside a Cathedral type build)
1 iron farm with 8 villages at my dockyard (out at sea)
1 iron farm with 1 village at New Arenae (inside a sphinx)
1 iron farm with 1 village at my secretbatcave (high up, almost out of sight)

B/ I am the last one to "complain about the lack of space on the server" I have taken up so much space on all 3 worlds (Arenae City/New Arenae City/Large Dockyard/Loads of Ships/An Airport/3 places in the Nether/20 story Enderman Farm/a large area in the member world with village and villager shop to name a few) it's getting beyond a joke.

The point that I am getting at is: So what about all the work/effort/time put in to make these easy money structures... The market is now modified and we should get over it, move on and build something else - And if 'other' modifications are needed to be implemented in the future, you can rest assured that these changes are necessary for the benefit of the server!

[Holy_Moses]

Welp, im just gonna unfollow this before i go loco