Proposed smp changes

[Nick3306]

I think this is a bad idea personally, a lot of the remaining players come here for the builds they have made in the past,  and to have some fun playing with their friends. Community has and always will be one of the driving factors as to why this server is still here, and I fear that a complete wipe of SMP would just divide the community further. People want to make changes to attract new players and I'm all for that, but if the cost of new players is losing some of our oldest members and friends is it really worth it?

If everyone stays for the community, wouldn't they all stay no matter what then? If the main reason they stay is not for the gameplay, but the community, why would they leave due to a gameplay change?

The fact is, our players numbers have been steadily dropping, if you guys want to keep things the way they are, we are all for that.  All this is supposed to be is us seeing if a change would be preferred. If it is not preferred, we wont change it.

[Leafolozzy]

Please don't get rid of the economy system. We need minor changes.
          1. We should fix the market; no one (informed) uses it. People just trade with others. You can sell like 3 things at unfair prices.
          2. We should fix the inflation problem. Instead of making dirt at a 60 buy price, it should be a 1 buy price. The reason is people brag about their 1 million dollars, which is not particularly a lot.
          3. We should somehow prevent people from mass farming. I don't want to discourage economic growth, but if people just soak up money through farms, take out masses of space, and aft there for hours, the games just not fun.

[TarynMai]

Please don't get rid of the economy system. We need minor changes.
          1. We should fix the market; no one (informed) uses it. People just trade with others. You can sell like 3 things at unfair prices.
          2. We should fix the inflation problem. Instead of making dirt at a 60 buy price, it should be a 1 buy price. The reason is people brag about their 1 million dollars, which is not particularly a lot.
          3. We should somehow prevent people from mass farming. I don't want to discourage economic growth, but if people just soak up money through farms, take out masses of space, and aft there for hours, the games just not fun.

1. That is what we were thinking - letting people trade with others.
2. I dont know how much that would help, but sure.
3. We've been trying that, there's always new farms people make and new ways to do that lol

Are you okay with the world removal then?

[Cora]

My turn to say my opinion - agree or don't, here it is:

You're saying that players you've spoken to have explained why they "stopped playing." What you're not taking into account, is the people that have come to SMP since you've all decided it was too "stale" and the people who stayed since before you left. Sure things like a delisting of warps, and cleaning up the economy a little might be in order -- but completely disintegrating everything your current SMP regulars love about it, is just cruel and inconsiderate. By doing this you're saying that only the people who have stopped caring about/loving SMP matter, and those who are loyal do not.

But in case this was not specific enough let us go further into detail. No point system could replace the ease that the market creates, especially in periods when there's new updates to Minecraft overall and we're left without naturally spawning new items that we want to try/use. It also helps create a more build-friendly style of SMP, which is why the regulars stay. Removing all the worlds - especially while so many of us are mid-big builds with each other, is beyond insulting and rude. And the argument that building is for creative, is completely invalid. Building where the blocks are constantly accessible without any form of survival playing (either by trying to make money in market, or legitimately going out to mine the blocks) is more stale to me than what some people feel the SMP server has become. This market and block collecting system builds a sense of community with all the players working together to achieve their goals of the time. So honestly creative does not replace this style of playing, not by a long shot. The PVP world you attempted to implement has had little to no success, and I bet you can't imagine why? Because we - the people who remain loyal to SMP are loyal because of how it is NOW. We don't like/need to try and get the best armor and kill each other - or have people kill us while we're trying to enjoy the game. You are proposing fundamental changes to what makes Opticraft this amazing community we all love and enjoy, without even really being involved with it much anymore. You've lost touch with how much we all love and enjoy the server, and I think these changes will ensure the end of Opticraft.

[Leafolozzy]

Please don't get rid of the economy system. We need minor changes.
          1. We should fix the market; no one (informed) uses it. People just trade with others. You can sell like 3 things at unfair prices.
          2. We should fix the inflation problem. Instead of making dirt at a 60 buy price, it should be a 1 buy price. The reason is people brag about their 1 million dollars, which is not particularly a lot.
          3. We should somehow prevent people from mass farming. I don't want to discourage economic growth, but if people just soak up money through farms, take out masses of space, and aft there for hours, the games just not fun.

1. That is what we were thinking - letting people trade with others.
2. I dont know how much that would help, but sure.
3. We've been trying that, there's always new farms people make and new ways to do that lol

Are you okay with the world removal then?

Yeah I'm completely sick of these worlds. Also, will the new worlds be 1.9?

[HoaxZ]

I know i am a new comer and only been playing just over a month but if we all get a say then id like to give a little input.
i do not think a total restart is a good idea. i have played on other SMP servers and over time they get more complicated and new things added and it changes the game too much. i like this server as it is survival. if i fall i die, if i loose my stuff its gone forever. if i want to build something i gather the resources. i play my game like i would on a single player world. the added bonus is the people who play with you. these members that are active daily i have come to know are great people and a good laugh. this is why i enjoy this server. i can get on with building, chat and help each other out. i don't use the market and think your cost for a beacon is far too high.  the servers have been up for a long time and a lot of the resources have been mined to where your searching hours for a block or ore. a new server would be good and a fresh start, fresh resources, fresh ideas. BUT i think you should keep the old servers maybe separate them so you cannot take items between the two servers but have chat open between them so people can all talk no matter the server. there are not many changes that will help bring in new people. the only way to do that is word of mouth and advertising. the reason servers are dying out is players are going to minigame sites instead for a quick bit of fun. you have had new members join and as one of them i like the server how it is and after a month i feel i have built a lot and do not wish to see it wiped even if there is a world download, id like to finish it on the server. if you made a new 1.9 server with some not all new implements i will give it a try but if it is too different from what it is now i will stick to playing the server i am on now. i would like to get a start on a new server, work with others to collect resources and build things together. i think when it comes to farms its nice when their is no mob cap but when people leave and they are no longer used it would be good if they put in an off button so it is no longer in use. but that is my opinion. over all please don't delete the worlds or reset them, a world download isnt the same though a nice thing to offer. if you want a new server make one and implement a few changes, if its too different people will stay on the older ones and some new people may join but if you delete the old ones i see you loosing the old devoted members. its a hard choice but if you can, do both and give the older players the option of playing the old worlds still. as for the new im sure people will give it a chance. but the old servers could do with updating to  1,9 aswell just for the new blocks and ideas they can put into their builds. also i enjoy seeing others builds. with the hall of fame id like to see more builds in it that i can visit for inspiration and admire their work. without the servers we wouldn't have that.
anyway those are my thoughts, thank you for reading them.

HoaxZ

[Nothing_]

I think this is a bad idea personally, a lot of the remaining players come here for the builds they have made in the past,  and to have some fun playing with their friends. Community has and always will be one of the driving factors as to why this server is still here, and I fear that a complete wipe of SMP would just divide the community further. People want to make changes to attract new players and I'm all for that, but if the cost of new players is losing some of our oldest members and friends is it really worth it?

If everyone stays for the community, wouldn't they all stay no matter what then? If the main reason they stay is not for the gameplay, but the community, why would they leave due to a gameplay change?

The fact is, our players numbers have been steadily dropping, if you guys want to keep things the way they are, we are all for that.  All this is supposed to be is us seeing if a change would be preferred. If it is not preferred, we wont change it.

Like I  said, they come for the builds and community that helped build them. Personally I see those builds as part of the community. Its like when people protest an old rec center being torn down. Sure the community that enjoyed the rec center will still be there after the change, but the place where they built memories and friendships will be gone. It might be just a server but nostalgia is a powerful thing, and without it a lot of people don't have any reason to come back.

[TarynMai]

Please don't get rid of the economy system. We need minor changes.
          1. We should fix the market; no one (informed) uses it. People just trade with others. You can sell like 3 things at unfair prices.
          2. We should fix the inflation problem. Instead of making dirt at a 60 buy price, it should be a 1 buy price. The reason is people brag about their 1 million dollars, which is not particularly a lot.
          3. We should somehow prevent people from mass farming. I don't want to discourage economic growth, but if people just soak up money through farms, take out masses of space, and aft there for hours, the games just not fun.

1. That is what we were thinking - letting people trade with others.
2. I dont know how much that would help, but sure.
3. We've been trying that, there's always new farms people make and new ways to do that lol

Are you okay with the world removal then?

Yeah I'm completely sick of these worlds. Also, will the new worlds be 1.9?

They would be, yeah.

[Nick3306]

My turn to say my opinion - agree or don't, here it is:

You're saying that players you've spoken to have explained why they "stopped playing." What you're not taking into account, is the people that have come to SMP since you've all decided it was too "stale" and the people who stayed since before you left. Sure things like a delisting of warps, and cleaning up the economy a little might be in order -- but completely disintegrating everything your current SMP regulars love about it, is just cruel and inconsiderate. By doing this you're saying that only the people who have stopped caring about/loving SMP matter, and those who are loyal do not.

But in case this was not specific enough let us go further into detail. No point system could replace the ease that the market creates, especially in periods when there's new updates to Minecraft overall and we're left without naturally spawning new items that we want to try/use. It also helps create a more build-friendly style of SMP, which is why the regulars stay. Removing all the worlds - especially while so many of us are mid-big builds with each other, is beyond insulting and rude. And the argument that building is for creative, is completely invalid. Building where the blocks are constantly accessible without any form of survival playing (either by trying to make money in market, or legitimately going out to mine the blocks) is more stale to me than what some people feel the SMP server has become. This market and block collecting system builds a sense of community with all the players working together to achieve their goals of the time. So honestly creative does not replace this style of playing, not by a long shot. The PVP world you attempted to implement has had little to no success, and I bet you can't imagine why? Because we - the people who remain loyal to SMP are loyal because of how it is NOW. We don't like/need to try and get the best armor and kill each other - or have people kill us while we're trying to enjoy the game. You are proposing fundamental changes to what makes Opticraft this amazing community we all love and enjoy, without even really being involved with it much anymore. You've lost touch with how much we all love and enjoy the server, and I think these changes will ensure the end of Opticraft.

All of this makes sense, but I'm not saying anyone matters more, that's the point of the poll...... If the people who play now outweigh the players like the ones we talked to then it will reflect in the poll.
Also, when we introduced a very poor version of pvp, player numbers jumped, so saying it didn't work at all isn't correct.

[Cora]

All of this makes sense, but I'm not saying anyone matters more, that's the point of the poll...... If the people who play now outweigh the players like the ones we talked to then it will reflect in the poll.
Also, when we introduced a very poor version of pvp, player numbers jumped, so saying it didn't work at all isn't correct.

Fair enough - however, if the people who have left outweighed the people who remain. Then those of us who love and adore SMP for what it is are just supposed to watch it all go away and change? I can honestly say I've seen tonight in chat, and I feel myself that it would definitely be a driving factor in a lot of peoples' departure from Opticraft - thus permanently altering or losing the current community altogether.

True the numbers did spike, but not permanently. The community that stays, that lasts is not seemingly interested in PvP.

[Nick3306]

All of this makes sense, but I'm not saying anyone matters more, that's the point of the poll...... If the people who play now outweigh the players like the ones we talked to then it will reflect in the poll.
Also, when we introduced a very poor version of pvp, player numbers jumped, so saying it didn't work at all isn't correct.

Fair enough - however, if the people who have left outweighed the people who remain. Then those of us who love and adore SMP for what it is are just supposed to watch it all go away and change? I can honestly say I've seen tonight in chat, and I feel myself that it would definitely be a driving factor in a lot of peoples' departure from Opticraft - thus permanently altering or losing the current community altogether.

True the numbers did spike, but not permanently. The community that stays, that lasts is not seemingly interested in PvP.

Well if the people who want to see the change outnumber those who are left, it would be saying those who are left are more important if we didn't change wouldn't it? It just sucks to see how few players play now days, sure the community is nice, but that doesnt pay the server bills.

[Cora]

All of this makes sense, but I'm not saying anyone matters more, that's the point of the poll...... If the people who play now outweigh the players like the ones we talked to then it will reflect in the poll.
Also, when we introduced a very poor version of pvp, player numbers jumped, so saying it didn't work at all isn't correct.

Fair enough - however, if the people who have left outweighed the people who remain. Then those of us who love and adore SMP for what it is are just supposed to watch it all go away and change? I can honestly say I've seen tonight in chat, and I feel myself that it would definitely be a driving factor in a lot of peoples' departure from Opticraft - thus permanently altering or losing the current community altogether.

True the numbers did spike, but not permanently. The community that stays, that lasts is not seemingly interested in PvP.

Well if the people who want to see the change outnumber those who are left, it would be saying those who are left are more important if we didn't change wouldn't it? It just sucks to see how few players play now days, sure the community is nice, but that doesnt pay the server bills.

True. But the people who don't play won't be hurt/upset by a loss... Either way change or no change, the server is going to take or maintain a deficit, in the end you just have to decide which is the lesser of two evils, or maybe come up with alternate changes. Creative brought great numbers why not a separate PvPSMP entity thus making everyone happy? I don't know. But you asked why we voted no, so now you know.

[Nick3306]

All of this makes sense, but I'm not saying anyone matters more, that's the point of the poll...... If the people who play now outweigh the players like the ones we talked to then it will reflect in the poll.
Also, when we introduced a very poor version of pvp, player numbers jumped, so saying it didn't work at all isn't correct.

Fair enough - however, if the people who have left outweighed the people who remain. Then those of us who love and adore SMP for what it is are just supposed to watch it all go away and change? I can honestly say I've seen tonight in chat, and I feel myself that it would definitely be a driving factor in a lot of peoples' departure from Opticraft - thus permanently altering or losing the current community altogether.

True the numbers did spike, but not permanently. The community that stays, that lasts is not seemingly interested in PvP.

Well if the people who want to see the change outnumber those who are left, it would be saying those who are left are more important if we didn't change wouldn't it? It just sucks to see how few players play now days, sure the community is nice, but that doesnt pay the server bills.

True. But the people who don't play won't be hurt/upset by a loss... Either way change or no change, the server is going to take or maintain a deficit, in the end you just have to decide which is the lesser of two evils, or maybe come up with alternate changes. Creative brought great numbers why not a separate PvPSMP entity thus making everyone happy? I don't know. But you asked why we voted no, so now you know.

Another smp server would just further split the current smp server leading to even less players. And I am glad you explained why you voted no.

[Roza]

I voted no for several reasons

one I have major builds in progress and they would be lost, loading them to realms so I can continue to play on them with my family and friends isn't the same, I have tried realms, I have tried other servers, but I stuck with opti because of the market, and the builds and the people who play on here with me.

When I first started I barely spoke to people, now I love to work with other people on their builds and how they pop by to see what I am doing and lend a hand here and there.  My sign on Astoria says brought to you by me penguin, codepmman and "the Opticraft community" because I am sure most active players had a hand in some feature or piece of that build.

I also spent a year mining and gathering supplies in order to support the builds I am working on.    I have built FREE access farms to share with the community of active players, I do not hoard money, I make a point of donating to the server on a semi regular basis.  I do all this because overall I much prefer this server as is than any other I have seen.

I am not in favour of these changes. I like to mine, I like to build, and for some blocks I prefer to buy. 

I am in favour of alternatives that would help clean up the current server and I am willing to help wherever possible, just show me what you need done.

We cannot please all people in all things, maybe instead of changing the server we should look at promoting it.

Thanks for listening

Roza

[optical]

I figured I'd share my thoughts on this too.
This current poll was briefly discussed yesterday, so I did have some input on this before it went up, however the ideas here are not concrete and I do not necessarily support all of them. I do think it is worth having a discussion around this, so lets continue along that avenue.

I don't support the idea of wiping all the worlds and starting fresh - I never have and I've spoke on this multiple times in the past, so this should be no surprise. I do however think the economy is dysfunctional and needs to be completely revamped. These are the two major gameplay changes that I think would matter the most. I am not sure what PvP ideas are being thrown around, but I don't think PvP outside of specific areas or events would work - we'd need to really flesh that one out first.

I think that bungeecord is the way to go, but getting a fully functional bungee system going up that works seamlessly (single-server chat, warps, ranks, etc) is going to require a fair chunk of work from myself and probably deekay as we've got a lot of crossover in systems that we'd have to align and re-architect in order to work within a distributed environment. Never the less, its a very good idea.

Server promotion is another point I see being brought up, and right fully so. We have little promotion now, and the SMP voting system is outdated and broken. Aligning the voting across servers and fixing the rewards up would likely result in a measurable growth in the community.

I am sure we can improve the player protection system, but I am not sure on any details here - needs a lot more though I think.

Hope that sheds some light on my thoughts. Feel free to ask me questions about anything I didn't cover, or any areas I did that need more clarification