Proposed smp changes

[Tobs]

I feel while Bungeecord is a big task, it's the last thing that would make the servers feel "complete" again - just gotta find the time I suppose. World wipes I have always been on the fence about; on one hand it'd be nice for fresh worlds and everyone to start on the same level, on the other the nostalgia and evolution of people's builds - probably lean more to fresh, but if people desperately don't want this I certainly wouldn't want to force. I definitely would like new 1.9 world(s), but I don't like the idea of it being 'used' purely for resources, adding new worlds on top of these seems messy. As for the End, because of the big updates in 1.9 I'm wondering people's ideas on a reset of the End dimension?

PvP was simply to be an improvement on the current (terrible) system, nothing game-changing but hopefully more interesting than what we botched together - I guess similar to your plugin idea years ago, something that isn't tedious, but instead more fun.

I believe Nick or Deekay had some pretty different possible ideas for an alternative to what is the current economy, it is also something that has always been a bit ,"eh" and disjointed. This was one of the first thoughts and would tie in well with a wipe, but as that is pretty much off the cards, finding new ways for this to be worked into the current setup would be good.

Edit: It's 3am, alright?!

[Pew1998]

Count me in. I love the ideas listed above (1-5). Even a fresh world would be a new adventure. I say go for it.

Edit - With 1.9 having quite a few changes, I believe this would be a great time to try something like this. Possibly have a mini-server set up to experiment and see how these changes would work, along with the feedback.

[TooMuch4U]

Pls change the hashtag to #SurvivalRevival it sounds more cheesy.

[DeeKay]

Also, kind of interested why only one operator was consulted when there are several that still play on the server regularly, and not to single him out, but generally this is a staff decision and from what I know, Deekay is not currently staff on SMP. As shown in the past, your rank on SMP does not carry over to Creative, and so Creative ranks should not carry over to SMP.

I understand this was resolved privately and I'm not trying to spark another argument but merely get my own word in publicly on this topic and this topic alone.
My involvement behind the scenes was purely development related. It was simply my way of extending my assistance to Optical and everyone else, and discussing ways in which the development of the server would be impacted if these type of changes were to be put in place.

I understand you felt it was maybe unfair that others missed out on the discussion, people who probably deserve it more than I did. But I don't think my rank on SMP should dictate who/what I talk to/about, but instead my reputation as a whole.

[100penguin.]

So here are my thoughts. I voted No in the poll, then realised that there was a 'Support some of them' button.  So that sucks.

- Complete wipe of the server (all worlds will be available for download)
- Simplification or removal of the economy system.
- Addition of pvp modes
- Addition of a player trading system
- Points system where players accumulate points for things like voting and doing everyday survival activities. These points can be used to buy protection or rare items.
- Change to a player defined protection field system

1: I've never believed in this idea, and feel it is a controversial subject to just put out there. People will naturally go apeshit if you propose a 'Complete wipe'. My thoughts though, are that new worlds would be a great idea, and I support Toby with the idea of a 1.9 world, and the wiping of the end. The latter of which could possibly be extended to the nether. I feel that the majority of the ruining of the SMP economy came from exploitation of the nether and end realms, and also they are the 2 worlds out of the 3 (Nether, End and Overworld) that have the least number of buildings in, as they are primarily used for farms - This I feel is especially true of the most recent set of worlds. In short: More new worlds, not bulldozing the old ones. If this occurred, I believe many players [including myself] would leave; I've seen it happen too many times, and Optical's policy is an important part of why I chose opticraft in the first place as being a good place to hang around.

2: The economy sucks, and having had discussions with many players and staff members I feel I am not alone in this feeling. I am in true support of a shakeup, or even a complete removal. As an operator, I can use creative mode, however naturally I am not allowed to just 'give out items'. The current market however does exactly this, flooding the economy with 'bogus' items that never existed legit. Therefore, I feel the idea of a trading hall or whatever would work very nicely indeed. Money doesn't mean anything significant to those who have it nowadays, and thus, if it were lost then the huge material wealth of those players would tide them over nicely. A trading would definitely improve things (Or at least, not make things worse...)

3: I love PVP, and play it a lot. However I am aware of the opinions of others in this matter. I agree with Nick about the addition of PVP being purely Arena based. As a staff member I'm sure that 'general' PVP would generate far more troubles than it's worth. As an idea though, well worth looking into. Small objections however explained further down...

4: A player trading system would be the next obvious step in the whole market conundrum. However, importantly, this idea could easily lead to a market failure again [Market in this sense referring to the hypothetical trading ground, rather than the physical /warp market]. Those who were able to 'Mass produce' items would be free to set up their own shops, and set their prices ridiculously low. If this were the case, it'd allow people to become the moguls of certain things, which would essentially reproduce the troubles of the financial based economy. My solution? A minimum personal shop price for every item; none of this 1 dirt for 8 diamonds shit - A ballache to setup, but much easier than having to go through this enormous ballache of a process of 'discussing' everything new to the ends of the earth [Not that this is wrong of course, it should be discussed]. I volunteer to help with this process if necessary.

5: This is a tricky one. I like the idea, but don't really see the point all that much, because I know it's being implemented on Optiquest. I have no objections either way, but it does seem a little unnecessary, especially if we're trying to make this entire process as simple as possible for DK, Nick, and anyone else involved in the coding.

6: This is an interesting concept. No idea how it'd be done. Griefing happens, whether you have protections or not. Something I have seen done on the tekkit server I frequented (as with many others) Is the golden axe scheme - mock my stupidity if you wish - however the interesting point in this concept was that the number of blocks  you could claim was proportional (and increased) by voting. This could kill two birds with one stone, by increasing popularity, and somehow decoupling protection ability [Or more, griefing susceptibility] from finances.

So there we have it. In short, Number 1, definitely not, or penguin leaves. However new worlds yes. All the others are relatively on the fence, and my opinions are swayed by personal gain, ease of use (and coding) and use as a staff member. I'm glad I've been consulted now, but next time, a little earlier please :p

Disregarding my opinions for a second, I implore everyone who replies to  this thread to respect the opinions of others. Some of this thread has been a little geurilla - I know people have 'strong' opinions about all this as do I, but please accept that this is a democratic process. If all my opinions crash and burn,  then so be it, because it'll [hopefully] have been a fair process that caused them to do so.

[blueted12345]

So I voted "some of the changes", because some of them are obviously a big step forward and the way to go, however some in my opinion are moving so far away from "opticraft" that they should be seriously thought about.

1) Complete wipe of the server (all worlds will be available for download)
There's obviously countless hours put into these worlds; and just deleting them doesn't sound to me like a good option. The fun is exploring these worlds with your friends, not on singleplayer.

2) Simplification or removal of the economy system.
I think simplifying the economy would be good, making trading more focused on player to player, rather than player to market. I think the economy is one of the reasons why SMP gets boring, instead of having to go and do things in survival, there's pretty much everything at the market.

3) Addition of pvp modes
Personally, I like the idea of a free roaming pvp world. As well as giving you something to do, in my opinion it would amplify the excitment. If that's not possible then better pvp would be the next best option in my opinion. I feel like the arena pvp has been tried, and now, pretty much no one uses it - maybe due to it no being the best. Maybe have some sort of kit system? Whenever asking for PvP battles I usually get the response "don't have any armour". Another thing that i've seen been successfull on other servers is some sort of mini game. Eg. OITC arenas. However that could quite easily get boring quickly which is why I really think a full pvp world would be a good shout.

4)Addition of a player trading system
Something like /auc or chest shops that players can set up on there own, i've seen that work well on other servers.

5) Points system where players accumulate points for things like voting and doing everyday survival activities. These points can be used to buy protection or rare items.
This sounds like a really good idea to me. Actually getting points for playing and doing different things rather than just sitting at a farm. This would make actual survival minecraft have a purpose on Opti. Rather than economy being the main aim. Maybe have like a villager trading system where you can buy things with "OptiPoints" (Just as an example). This is one of the ideas that I really would support.

6) Change to a player defined protection field system
This wouldn't be the most important issue in my opinion; grief can be sorted by staff. But a player defined protection system could work in a pvp world as it gives a player some sort of safety space. However if the worlds are just going to stay as Non - Pvp, non-raiding this seems somewhat pointless to me.

So,
In Favour of:
 - Simplification or removal of the economy system.
- Addition of pvp modes
- Addition of a player trading system
- Points system where players accumulate points for things like voting and doing everyday survival activities. These points can be used to buy protection or rare items.

Not in favour of:
- Complete wipe of the server (all worlds will be available for download)

And the protection I really don't have an opinion on.
Thanks ~Ted

[Roza]

with a player trading system replacing market I have concerns, what if no one else is on?  How will that work?  Some of the prices people have in their shops are crazy.  I prefer going to market what about limiting balances to a max amount?  I would really need more information on exactly how it work.

I would loose access to the ender farm I currently use if the end and the nether were regenerated, but I think its a necessary step with 1.9 as the new blocks are all there.

Every change and refresh has a cost, its a question of finding the right balance between cost vs benefit.

the cost of loosing all materials supplies, buildings, etc for a complete refresh will be paid by the active members, as an active member I don't think its worth it.  I don't want a complete refresh but I am willing to help out with other changes and open to discussion.

I also believe that you can do anything you want to change the server, even a refresh and it wont make a real difference unless you have a proper promotion plan in place.  What good are all the changes if no one knows?

Roza

[codepmman]

Also, kind of interested why only one operator was consulted when there are several that still play on the server regularly, and not to single him out, but generally this is a staff decision and from what I know, Deekay is not currently staff on SMP. As shown in the past, your rank on SMP does not carry over to Creative, and so Creative ranks should not carry over to SMP.

I understand this was resolved privately and I'm not trying to spark another argument but merely get my own word in publicly on this topic and this topic alone.
My involvement behind the scenes was purely development related. It was simply my way of extending my assistance to Optical and everyone else, and discussing ways in which the development of the server would be impacted if these type of changes were to be put in place.

I understand you felt it was maybe unfair that others missed out on the discussion, people who probably deserve it more than I did. But I don't think my rank on SMP should dictate who/what I talk to/about, but instead my reputation as a whole.

sorry to implement you in this deekay but i feel like the way this was announced to everyone before being announced privately was a poor decision i felt like more operators and mods should of been notified first so they could learn more and possibly help with the fall out instead of nick yourself tobs and alicia having to do damage control alone. we were not informed until much later of your role in this. i did not realise your level of technical understanding and your rank on the server in question made its weird to me that you were so involved when others of higher smp ranks were not made aware. This has nothing to do with who Deserves it more... nobody Deserves anything more... we are all here to play and have fun.  you deserve it because you offered to help. it is appreciated that you want to put time into the server and give back. This reference had everything to do with the format of the announcement. i would like to publicly say that people are feeling like i called them out in my post but i used them as examples.  i used deekay because my understanding of his roll was not correct, not with misinformation just lack of information, and i used nick to show that not everyone leaves the server because they grow bored. Nick had talked to a very select number of people and that was the impression he got.  I would also like to publicly thank Nick for allowing us to put our differences aside and have a meaningful conversation where we discussed some of the issues i presented. although we still do not see eye to eye on a lot of things we agree to disagree on them and as this is just an announcement of POSSIBLE changes we felt that the discussion needed to go no further. I am however glad to see that my MAJOR concerns with the whole nuke and pave idea are reflections of what opti himself disagrees with. which intern causes me to relax a little.

just a recap
I am STRONGLY OPPOSED to wiping old worlds off the server
I am in favour of a economy revamp but one in which a market is still available for those who wish to use it
I am in favour of PVP as long as it doesn't affect people on SMP who do not wish to participate
i am in favour of a world of warcraft style of player auction system (can be explained in more detail if needed)
i had misunderstandings due to lack of information presented in original post on things like the points system and how to get points

Again thanks to Nick for explaining things to me a little better and if there are further questions i would be more than happy to help field them!

[Nick3306]

Well at this point, getting rid of the world's is off the table.

[Cora]

I also believe that you can do anything you want to change the server, even a refresh and it wont make a real difference unless you have a proper promotion plan in place.  What good are all the changes if no one knows?

I have to agree with this point made by Roza - and hope that more than just Optical are thinking about it. There really is no point in making any "improvements" if no one knows to come check them out.

[Nick3306]

I also believe that you can do anything you want to change the server, even a refresh and it wont make a real difference unless you have a proper promotion plan in place.  What good are all the changes if no one knows?

I have to agree with this point made by Roza - and hope that more than just Optical are thinking about it. There really is no point in making any "improvements" if no one knows to come check them out.

advertising costs money, a lot of money actually. So no, we have not thought about it at all as optical is the only one to make the decision to advertise.

[Cora]

advertising costs money, a lot of money actually. So no, we have not thought about it at all as optical is the only one to make the decision to advertise.

Except that Optical is always open to ideas, and if the point of this is to bring up ideas to raise your player count - then perhaps people could be coming up with advertising ideas to help. Maybe new perk ideas to help pay for advertising, fixing the voting like he mentioned etc. Point is, other people might have some golden nugget ideas. Advertising doesn't have to be on a pay-ad basis. There's social media, and all sorts of other resources that I'm sure people could come up with if we asked them about this point too. Like Roza said - what's the point in all the hard work and changes, if no one will see them?

[TheWholeLoaf]

I agree with everything in the original post, as well as some other ideas that people have had. There should be a big push on advertising, but that has always been brought up and nothing ever done about it. It is entirely Optical's choice as well. Another good idea I've read was from penguin, to link voting to the allotted land you can protect. Voting should be linked to more things rather than item rewards. DK's voting points system where you can choose what to spend your points on is an interesting concept, and again, doesn't have to be limited to just buying items.

I'd like to see a resource world implemented. There are quite a few advantages to this and I cant really think of any disadvantages other than the majority of the mining wont be done in the main worlds. The resource world would allow the main worlds to look much nicer as they are for building and exploring only. The resource world would also regenerate regularly but also randomize so that players can not memorize where the resources are located. The goal of this is to not end up with worlds like old guest further down the road.

I'd also like to see farms regulated much more.

[Nick3306]

advertising costs money, a lot of money actually. So no, we have not thought about it at all as optical is the only one to make the decision to advertise.

Except that Optical is always open to ideas, and if the point of this is to bring up ideas to raise your player count - then perhaps people could be coming up with advertising ideas to help. Maybe new perk ideas to help pay for advertising, fixing the voting like he mentioned etc. Point is, other people might have some golden nugget ideas. Advertising doesn't have to be on a pay-ad basis. There's social media, and all sorts of other resources that I'm sure people could come up with if we asked them about this point too. Like Roza said - what's the point in all the hard work and changes, if no one will see them?

I understand that, but it just feels weird to me to attempt to tell someone how to spend their money, maybe it's just me being weird lol

[Roza]

I have seen some people try to show the server in videos and some were good, some not so much.  Creating a few videos and uploading to U tube - is there a cost?  if the video goes viral, how many people have now heard and seen images of the server?  Your very talented and there are a lot of talented members in the community, how about putting a group together to try to come up with free advertising and promotional methods, developing a plan and once approved implementing it?