Proposed smp changes

[Roza]

I apologize I didn't intend to type "stupid" and lets not forget to focus on the positive  of what I said as well, which is that I am willing to compromise, and to do what it takes to help (all you have to do is ask), and I am in support of you changing the economy even though I rely on our current market to get things in a hurry when I am  in the middle of building or things I hate to gather/farm myself.

[TarynMai]

I apologize I didn't intend to type "stupid" and lets not forget to focus on the positive  of what I said as well, which is that I am willing to compromise, and to do what it takes to help (all you have to do is ask), and I am in support of you changing the economy even though I rely on our current market to get things in a hurry when I am  in the middle of building or things I hate to gather/farm myself.

If you don't like to have to get the blocks for yourself and would rather buy them, what exactly is the difference between that and creative? Why not just build there? I don't mean anything bad by asking, I'm just genuinely curious why you wouldn't just use creative if you really don't want to have to get all of the blocks by hand.

[Cora]

That's just it, it doesn't work, it hasn't worked for a long time. The main idea behind our market and economy was that it was supposed to be a last resort for players get get a few blocks from. Unfortunately that turned into everyone building giant laggy farms and afking for hours on end to gain wealth. That is not, and has never been what we intended the economy and game play to be. It straight up doesn't work.

What about it doesn't work? Just because it's not what you intended, does not mean that it doesn't work the way it is. It just means you don't like what you've created -- I, and the people who play regularly do like it - or people like Hoax don't use it at all lol. Also you don't technically have an "economy." It's not an economy because because there's unlimited cash flow entering every time someone donates for money, and it would be the same with your "point system". There would be an unlimited number to the amount of points a player gets thus completely evolving into the same thing you don't like. Though now instead of laggy farms you have all these ugly farms everywhere people are making purely for the purpose of gaining those points. Would people gain points for killing mobs as that's a survival activity? Mob farms - bam. Would people make points for planting crops and picking them? Bam, lag farms. Would people make points for killing animals or for breeding them? Bam, animal farm. Changing the system to points won't change or fix anything - not that I think it's broke to begin with, but I really don't think it's worth implementing such a change - just to go back to where you don't seem to like being. I think if you don't like the big lag farms make it purely against the rules. Make it a banable offence - give staff the permission to roll back any farms made/found, and call it a day. When people complain as to why you've made that rule - give THIS explanation. The one where you feel it ruins the world and the game play. Again, just my thoughts.

[Waddlaswe]

As long as you don't add MCMMO I'm all for changes xD. Also I love the players shop idea Gavin posted about.

[Roza]

Alicia

to answer your question I do like to mine and gather most blocks.  that's mine craft. I do like the ability to buy blocks at the same time.    I also prefer to play on Opticalza's server because it is the best I have seen.

[Waddlaswe]

That's just it, it doesn't work, it hasn't worked for a long time. The main idea behind our market and economy was that it was supposed to be a last resort for players get get a few blocks from. Unfortunately that turned into everyone building giant laggy farms and afking for hours on end to gain wealth. That is not, and has never been what we intended the economy and game play to be. It straight up doesn't work.

What about it doesn't work? Just because it's not what you intended, does not mean that it doesn't work the way it is. It just means you don't like what you've created -- I, and the people who play regularly do like it - or people like Hoax don't use it at all lol. Also you don't technically have an "economy." It's not an economy because because there's unlimited cash flow entering every time someone donates for money, and it would be the same with your "point system". There would be an unlimited number to the amount of points a player gets thus completely evolving into the same thing you don't like. Though now instead of laggy farms you have all these ugly farms everywhere people are making purely for the purpose of gaining those points. Would people gain points for killing mobs as that's a survival activity? Mob farms - bam. Would people make points for planting crops and picking them? Bam, lag farms. Would people make points for killing animals or for breeding them? Bam, animal farm. Changing the system to points won't change or fix anything - not that I think it's broke to begin with, but I really don't think it's worth implementing such a change - just to go back to where you don't seem to like being. I think if you don't like the big lag farms make it purely against the rules. Make it a banable offence - give staff the permission to roll back any farms made/found, and call it a day. When people complain as to why you've made that rule - give THIS explanation. The one where you feel it ruins the world and the game play. Again, just my thoughts.

Personally for people like me and Lando, and Gavin. All the fun of Minecraft is in making farms. Minecraft is so much more than breaking blocks, crafting and building a house. There are so many different elements and layers. And a big one is the building of farms and automation.  I am strongly against the idea of banning farms.

[Cora]

Personally for people like me and Lando, and Gavin. All the fun of Minecraft is in making farms. Minecraft is so much more than breaking blocks, crafting and building a house. There are so many different elements and layers. And a big one is the building of farms and automation.  I am strongly against the idea of banning farms.

I am too Waddlaswe - the idea was more to make a point. That no economic changes will stop people from making these farms - and so the only way to stop it - if that is such a big deal to our admin, is to make them against the rules. I personally like Opticraft the way it is.

[Waddlaswe]

I am too Waddlaswe - the idea was more to make a point. That no economic changes will stop people from making these farms - and so the only way to stop it - if that is such a big deal to our admin, is to make them against the rules. I personally like Opticraft the way it is.

I agree with you. I love Opticraft the way it is. Could it use some slight changes. Yes. But it shouldn't be completely re-done.

[Nick3306]

That's just it, it doesn't work, it hasn't worked for a long time. The main idea behind our market and economy was that it was supposed to be a last resort for players get get a few blocks from. Unfortunately that turned into everyone building giant laggy farms and afking for hours on end to gain wealth. That is not, and has never been what we intended the economy and game play to be. It straight up doesn't work.

What about it doesn't work? Just because it's not what you intended, does not mean that it doesn't work the way it is. It just means you don't like what you've created -- I, and the people who play regularly do like it - or people like Hoax don't use it at all lol. Also you don't technically have an "economy." It's not an economy because because there's unlimited cash flow entering every time someone donates for money, and it would be the same with your "point system". There would be an unlimited number to the amount of points a player gets thus completely evolving into the same thing you don't like. Though now instead of laggy farms you have all these ugly farms everywhere people are making purely for the purpose of gaining those points. Would people gain points for killing mobs as that's a survival activity? Mob farms - bam. Would people make points for planting crops and picking them? Bam, lag farms. Would people make points for killing animals or for breeding them? Bam, animal farm. Changing the system to points won't change or fix anything - not that I think it's broke to begin with, but I really don't think it's worth implementing such a change - just to go back to where you don't seem to like being. I think if you don't like the big lag farms make it purely against the rules. Make it a banable offence - give staff the permission to roll back any farms made/found, and call it a day. When people complain as to why you've made that rule - give THIS explanation. The one where you feel it ruins the world and the game play. Again, just my thoughts.

It is not even close to the same thing as we can manage a points system to make it where no one activity can be easily abused like the market currently is. A great example would be checking if mobs are spawned from a spawner. There would also be less incentive to abuse the point system if it were possible as you cannot gain most items from it. Bottom line is, there would be no way to just afk in one spot or stand there clicking over and over to gain points. The idea of the points system is to get rid of the market but still have a way for players to buy protection, the server is not supposed to run on the points.

Sure people will still build farms, and if that's what they like to do, then more power to them. They just wont be able to get insanely rich from them by standing in one spot.

[Cora]

It is not even close to the same thing as we can manage a points system to make it where no one activity can be easily abused like the market currently is. A great example would be checking if mobs are spawned from a spawner. There would also be less incentive to abuse the point system if it were possible as you cannot gain most items from it. Bottom line is, there would be no way to just afk in one spot or stand there clicking over and over to gain points. The idea of the points system is to get rid of the market but still have a way for players to buy protection, the server is not supposed to run on the points.

Sure people will still build farms, and if that's what they like to do, then more power to them. They just wont be able to get insanely rich from them by standing in one spot.

Fair enough.

[TarynMai]

Alicia

to answer your question I do like to mine and gather most blocks.  that's mine craft. I do like the ability to buy blocks at the same time.    I also prefer to play on Opticalza's server because it is the best I have seen.

Fair enough, was only curious :p

[DeeKay]

After reading through everyone's responses and having a few days to think about this, a lot of my original thoughts have changed a little. Here goes.

Complete wipe of the server (all worlds will be available for download)
This was honestly the thing I was looking forward to the most and it's a real shame it's off the table now. I think it's taken far too long for this to have been brought up, and unfortunately because of that, it's become something almost unacceptable within the community. I know not everyone sees eye to eye on this subject and it's become a lot more controversial than I would have ever expected it to be, but in my eyes I think a clean slate would have benefited the server greatly and given a fresh outlook and a way to consolidate and bring things back together.

On the similar topic of adding a new world for 1.9; I don't like this idea at all. This kind of thing has always been our knee-jerk reaction to giving people more space, and every time it's added more to the problem than it did fix it. It's separated the players more and more every time and caused more of an eyesore every time. At this point, if there's not going to be a wipe, I'm more in favour of keeping the number of worlds the way they are than adding any new ones.

Simplification or removal of the economy system.
I think the argument going around for this is that our current money/market system is broken. (trying to stay clear of the word economy) While I agree the money/market system probably isn't the way it intended to be, and that it had a lot of rough patches within the community in the past, I don't think it's necessarily broken. However, I'm still in favour of it being removed but for a much more simple reason than others might have. I simply want a more survival feel for the server, not just myself. You can say something like "well just don't use it" and I get it, but it goes much deeper than that. Every feature on the server is there for everyone and it reflects the server as a whole whether I choose to use it or not, and it might just be me being a pro-survival kinda guy, but I just think we need to consider going back a step and think more vanilla.

Addition of pvp modes
I was in favour for this at first, but as per my response above I think it would make more sense to have a whole world dedicated to PvP or even just a portion of the world being PvP. Perhaps the Nether and/or End worlds have some kind of PvP, as it would be somewhat immersive considering they're the most dangerous.

Addition of a player trading system
Same as above. Wouldn't hurt the server but isn't totally necessary for a survival server with a low player count. I think being able to chat with someone and organise to meet up somewhere is part of the survival experience.

Points system where players accumulate points for things like voting and doing everyday survival activities. These points can be used to buy protection or rare items.
I like the idea of being able to earn points from voting to spend in a separate store (my server does this and it has helped voting tremendously) but I'm on the fence about the idea of earning them from doing every day activities. I think it would make more sense to draw the line at voting and not try to make it a replacement for the current money/market system we have. I think it should be seen as a way to revamp the voting system and give players new rewards for voting.

Change to a player defined protection field system
I think the pstone system works just fine and this would only complicate things. Personally, I like being given a block I simply have to place and protect an area with no hassle. I think pstones are user friendly, convenient, and intuitive to use.

Other Thoughts
I see a lot of "this will help boost out player count" going around, and I don't think this should have been an argument or counterargument. I think any changes we make to the server would be neutral in terms of player count. The main thing these changes should be targeting is our community, and how we can help improve and revamp things to make them enjoyable once more to those who find the server to be stale. if we're thinking in terms of new players, it should be "how can we make the server appealing once more to any new players we could potentially receive."

On that note, I agree that advertising should be a high priority if the outcome is wanting a higher player count. I think starting with the revamp of the voting system is a good start and things can expand from there on.

[Roza]

I only have one question DeeKay

currently new 1.8... blocks are only available in market or by crafting as we had no expansion of the worlds an no new worlds added when these blocks were added, if you propose to remove the market and not create new world, or expand borders on current worlds, where do people get these blocks at a reasonable cost?  Crafting is quartz heavy while mining in their biomes plentiful.

[VoreReznor]

My motherboard crapped out and I missed 2 weeks.  I have a few things to contribute to this topic and a few opinions that I was too late getting in.

Complete wipe of the server (all worlds will be available for download)
Oh man, I have builds that I work on regularly, on 3 of our 4 worlds I am in for wiping all of them. I feel like one of the things that really got me hooked on this server was getting invited into a town and working as a member of that community.  As the worlds grew and players spread out the need to work with others slowly faded away as we all had our own room to do our own thing.  We have roughly 25-50 regular players currently playing on 4 worlds that are huge, this takes away from the team building feel.  I have invested years into some big projects but I feel like its kind of like playing with lego, you need to smash apart your old builds to make newer better ones


Simplification or removal of the economy system
I don't normally use the market or my currency, the only thing players really need to buy are rare items and ps stones and in my opinion ps stones are kind of obsolete for the staff per player ratio we have.  I have felt this way long before becoming staff as testament to everyone before me. Our staff fix and enforce rules so well the average player doesn't need to protect anything, they can just rely on rollback and bans. 


Addition of pvp modes
I don't PVP, I am in favour of what more experienced players in the pvp world have to say.


Addition of a player trading system
This already happens (in /ch t), I think it would be nice to allow for guys to set up shops so money and items are auto transferred.  other than that I don't see this being a big change to the server.


Points system where players accumulate points for things like voting and doing everyday survival activities. These points can be used to buy protection or rare items.
I like this idea, but I think it sounds like a lot of work.  I think if all this work is done to change the general feel of the server we should make it a fresh start.  which should include moving out old worlds and cash.  I think carrying over the old worlds and farms would be a waste as most people will need to start over anyway.

Change to a player defined protection field system
This is a must in my opinion.  I think PS Stones are obsolete.  We need a revamping of this or deletion of PS all together.

I am happy with this server the way it is, I am also excited to be apart of it in the future and will do my best to help the cause even if it's not the way I would like it to be.  If you need anything or have specific questions for me please ask.

[Nick3306]

Points system where players accumulate points for things like voting and doing everyday survival activities. These points can be used to buy protection or rare items.
I like this idea, but I think it sounds like a lot of work.  I think if all this work is done to change the general feel of the server we should make it a fresh start.  which should include moving out old worlds and cash.  I think carrying over the old worlds and farms would be a waste as most people will need to start over anyway.

That is basically one of the reasons a few of us were in favor of a complete wipe but its clear the players don't feel the same.  And if the current market gets replaced, the money will go away with it.