Economy and protection

[Muhnator]

This tread is dirrected toward's Opti.. Try and keep if free from unrelated comments.

So after having a really good talk on the server with Nick3306, about what would happen if economy was implemented, and how protection should be used, i feel the need to make this tread since, i forsee some issues with the curent line that is being laid out for the beta server.. (the talk in Devils tread)

Economy :

This is a truely bad idea imo.. Those that know me, know that im a fairly good miner, and i have alot of freetime on my hands atm.. This will make me able to get a huge advantage over casual players joining the server. If all of the sudden the game is economy based this will encurrage players to horde resources..(i know i will, even if its a bad idea) With the tecknique i use for mining, and the time i got on my hands, i will be hording a chest of diamonds  and a dubble chest of gold in a week..

This is really bad, cuz a casual player have no chance in hell getting to the same lvl im at.. I shoudent care about this, cuz i would obviusly be on top of the foodchain, but i do care..

Hording resources is a really bad idea, cuz just like irl, it will create a huge inbalanace, no matter how you try and micromanage it.. The players with the most time on their hands will dominate the game, and as far as i understand opticraft, it should be even for all players..

Please do not implement this..

Protection :

After talking to Nick today i got the feeling that i didnt really explain how i see protection used, so after some brainstorming, and some correction of my english skillz, im gona try again..

Protection should be free, not economy based.. It should be build based.. (the server is allready hybrid build based)

"How build based you ask"

Well, just like in classic, were ops spend time promoting ppl for their builds, is kinda the same way protection should work..

Op's should be the ones deciding how mutch protection the player "deserves" If protection is implemented grief and exploit is PERMANENTLY fixed, and ops jobs would now be to protect ppls builds, according to the efford that was put into it.. (imagine classic just totally grief free)

Lets say a player spends 2 days building a house that is roughly 30x30, well then he gets around a 50x50 spot protected. (its up to the player to find a suitable spot, and it should say so in the spawn)

Dirt sheeds and dare i say it "crappy builds" wont get protection. The op should be convinved that this is a player that wants to continiue playing on the server.. Just like the move from guest to recruit in classic..

If a player travels to the far edge of the map, since hes aware of he going to make a 200x200 build, there should be no problem in protecting this aswell, as long as the player has chosen his area with some thought.. (most ppl that make big builds should be able to do this)

Protection is in no way based on how big or "awsome" the build is. The guy that makes a nice house that is 30x30, deserves the same treatment as the one that does a 200x200 mindblowing castle complex. its just up to the op to decide if the player wants to make opticraft his home..

The size of the build does however not gief ranks or anything like it, its just making sure the player has a good gaming explerience, no matter if there are ops online or not.

About the height of the protection, it has to be from bedrock to the skies. As i wrote in Devils tread, the thing that allows players to build great stuff, is their mine (the game is called minecraft).
If a player decides to make a 200x200 build, hes gona need the rock and coal beneeth him to make this a reality. Some ppl spend alot of time on their mines, and this deserves just as mutch protection as the structure on top, if not more.
Ive seen some ppl make a small building on top, with enormus creations underground.

And for thos that argue it not fair cuz then all the diamond is getting reserved, i can only facepalm.. This is the typical "omg its that dudes fault i fail" thinking that was allmost destroying Devils tread..
Its like ppl forget that they can still mine outside the protected zone, noone will be stopping you from exploring caves or setting up a mine anywere else in the map.
 If you think the player that makes an insane build is interested in diamonds, i urge you to try and think again. (personally id pick coal over diamond anyday) Heck, ill even give away my diamonds if its what it takes.(as long as i kan keep a few for my pic and shovel)
 And the beta maps are wast, so stop crying and go find what you want in the rest of the world that is yours to explore. 200x200 is the biggest i could imagine anyone building on, and this is still a only tiny part of the map when we go out of testing.


Ive seen this on other servers.. First of all, op's have more time on their hands, cuz grief is only part of history books. But most important of all, protection makes the entire attitude of the server alot brighter between the players.

I played on supremeserver for around 2 weeks (only left cuz you made the server Opti) and i have never in those 2 weeks seen a grief comment in the chat..
Further more, ive never seen 2 ppl argue over whos space is whos, witch we atm are drowning in on the beta server (yes im one of em) Ppl were happy to invite other ppl to see their builds, cuz there were no chance of em getting exploited or griefed.

Im posting this cuz i want all players to have the same great experience, no mater how mutch freetime they got on their hands, or how good they are at mining/building..

My suggestion's are not final, all numbers are just there as an example. Ofc they can be tweaked, but i generally see this as the best hybrid solution for the server. Both for the players and the staff..

 Muhnator

[Nick3306]

I know i have already told you this but i just want to say again for others here. My reason for not liking the promotion based on how well you build is that I feel it will turn the server into more of a creative server. Not everyone comes on to build great things, and they should be able to buy protection for their things if they want it.

[Muhnator]

I know i have already told you this but i just want to say again for others here. My reason for not liking the promotion based on how well you build is that I feel it will turn the server into more of a creative server. Not everyone comes on to build great things, and they should be able to buy protection for their things if they want it.

 I think as usuall, its my lack of english skillz that leads to misunderstanding..

I wish you would support me, and maby use your english skillz to help me try and explain how i would work.

But im not saying it has to be a great build in any way.. Just more then 12 dirt blocs stacked on top of eachother and the player then asks for a 100x100 area..

Please Nick, i beg of you, try and help me here..

Muhnator

[Nick3306]

I completely understand what you are saying. And it makes sense, but i dont think it is fit for a server where most people just want to play smp with their friends. But i also understand why an economy would be bad, they both have their ups and downs.

[Muhnator]

I completely understand what you are saying. And it makes sense, but i dont think it is fit for a server where most people just want to play smp with their friends. But i also understand why an economy would be bad, they both have their ups and downs.

The server is not smp anymore, its allready hybrid.. Im talking about the best hybrid solution..
But thanks for the support...

Muhnator

[DeVil.DeMonde]

I understand you concerns and everybody else's with an economy, It just doesn't make that big of a deal, at least not what everybody is getting at. Heck you're even free to completely ignore the economy if you like even if it's implemented.

Protection, economy based, non economy based, either way doesn't bother me. I prefer a staff free method but hey just as long as there is some type of protection.

+1 on the thread muh.

[Muhnator]

I understand you concerns and everybody else's with an economy, It just doesn't make that big of a deal, at least not what everybody is getting at. Heck you're even free to completely ignore the economy if you like even if it's implemented.

Protection, economy based, non economy based, either way doesn't bother me. I prefer a staff free method but hey just as long as there is some type of protection.

+1 on the thread muh.

Thanks alot Devil.. You oppinion meens alot..

As i stated in your tread, some of the economybased stuff you post about, goes right over my head. I just fear hording of resources, but this might be cuz i dont understand it fully.

About protection, i belive we agree 100%

Thanks again for making your super insightfull tread

 Muhnator

[clawstrider]

Whats wrong with hoarding? I always hoard, I have a magnet for lava
EDIT:
If you don't hoard, there can never be an economy system. How can you trade when you have not hoarded materials. Are you saying you should make your materials into something as soon as you come up from a mine? The whole point about Minecraft is getting better materials, then saving them for when you need them. Personally, I prefer making trades to a big economy $ system, but even so, hoarding should not be a "Bad" issue in either of them....

[optical]

I dont understand your concerns about hoarding? What does it have to do with an economy?
The whole paragraph does not make sense to me, as i don't see how hoarding or having a lot of stuff has anything to do with an economy system.

[Nick3306]

I dont understand your concerns about hoarding? What does it have to do with an economy?
The whole paragraph does not make sense to me, as i don't see how hoarding or having a lot of stuff has anything to do with an economy system.

What he is saying is that an economy system rewards people who hoard resources to sell for money to buy things like land. That gives casual players an unfair disadvantage because they are not on as much and wont be able to hoard as many resources as he can.

[Muhnator]

I dont understand your concerns about hoarding? What does it have to do with an economy?
The whole paragraph does not make sense to me, as i don't see how hoarding or having a lot of stuff has anything to do with an economy system.

My answer to this is pretty mutch Nicks reply..

Again, as in my answer to Devil "it might be that i dont understand the economy system fully" But as far is i understand money is earned of the amount of resources you have gathered, and this will encrurrage ppl to horde and not "build"
If im right your server will end up being a network of tunnels, rather then having some nice buildings to look at..
I might be wrong.. or i might misunderstand the dirrection you want the server to go in..

Do you have any reply on protection, if you do i would love to hear it..

Muhnator

[lLLEGAL]

Have protection in a far and secluded area where ppl dun go? Eg centre of ocean?

[clawstrider]

I dont understand your concerns about hoarding? What does it have to do with an economy?
The whole paragraph does not make sense to me, as i don't see how hoarding or having a lot of stuff has anything to do with an economy system.

What he is saying is that an economy system rewards people who hoard resources to sell for money to buy things like land. That gives casual players an unfair disadvantage because they are not on as much and wont be able to hoard as many resources as he can.

If you are a casual player, you:
A. Will not have as bigger builds (less mats, less build) so cheaper to protect
B. Would not care as much if people break in/mess it up a bit, as this is you free time thing, not a very important work of art.
Right?

[Muhnator]

Have protection in a far and secluded area where ppl dun go? Eg centre of ocean?

As i said in the tread, i would gladly travel to the end of the world, 20 minuttes from any playeer that has bult anything, to get my stuff protected.. My current home is setup in the middle of a lake, on the border of the map..

Muhnator

[Muhnator]

If you are a casual player, you:
A. Will not have as bigger builds (less mats, less build) so cheaper to protect
B. Would not care as much if people break in/mess it up a bit, as this is you free time thing, not a very important work of art.
Right?

a : mhmm

b : no matter the size, or quality of the build any player complains about grief. You are a classic op, you should know better then this reply..