Opticraft Community
Discussion forum => Legacy => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Chief149 on August 14, 2012, 10:38:20 pm
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Ok so we have discussed previous ideas for anti-xray.
The two ideas before were to have a plugin send data to the client saying that all of the ores NOT touching air on one of their sides would be converted into stone by the plugin making only ores touching the air of caves visible through xray.
The other idea was to use a plugin that makes ALL underground blocks that aren't directly surrounding the player be some type of ore, so the xray image would be flooded with valuable gold and diamond ores making it impossible to xray.
The issue with both of those ideas is the immense CPU usage. However I found a new idea:
http://dev.bukkit.org/server-mods/anti-x-ray/
You can read all of the information on the bukkit site, but lemme just summarize it for you:
The plugin linked above doesn't modify any block information. A con to the plugin is also that it does allow for SOME cheating, but not much. The plugin basically gives players a quota, or an invisible balance. This balance goes up with time (not including inactive/afk time. The player MUST be active for this quota to increase). When an ore is mined the quota goes down. This quota is designed to allow players to mine as many ores as they want because anyone who is NOT using xray wouldn't mine enough to even come close to hitting the quota unless it was a rare case where the player happened to find a lot of ores next to each other which is rare, but possible. When a player's quote reaches zero, and the player tries to mine another ore, they will get a message saying they have to wait a while. This could also possibly be customizeable to send a helpop to a moderator to investigate the player.
Existing players would be given a full quota if this plugin is added to the server while brand new players have a negative quota. This means players who are new won't be able to find ores until they play for a certain amount of time because most of the time the user has to do other things just to get the pickaxe that is capable of mining ores like diamond and gold.
Once again, this plugin is very light weight on the CPU and other resources, but it does allow for SOME cheating, but even cheaters who aren't dumb enough to say "Why won't it let me mine any more ores!" (indicating they are prob cheating) will not be able to mine more than a "normal" number of ores.
Like the idea?
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(http://www.opticraft.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F29.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lltzgnHi5F1qzib3wo1_400.jpg&hash=ffc693de8889d33fbe24d7662e8852f1)
I like it a lot!
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seems like a good idea and i prefer it over thatone that makes every block a ore stupid lag why you trolling me
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The nice thing is the plugin could easily be implemented where only the XRayers would know it. Why? Because the rate at which legitimate miners actually mine the different ores would be below their quota in most cases unless the player became incredibly lucky, and found a ton of good ores right next to each other which is possible, but very unlikely. Meanwhile the rate at which an X-ray user would mine ores would be much greater-greater than the given quota. At the very least this would limit the rate at which cheaters mine, but at the best the plugin could be configured to possibly alert admins. Then the admin could simply take a look at the player's mining job to determine the verdict.
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My house is a iron/diamond block house....
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the quota is only for mining blocks of ores. Not for what you possess
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*facepalm I an still making it/modifying it shifting my pses and removing/adding diamond/iron blocks.
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but you are still mining ores legitimately therefore the plugin won't affect you.
Gotta remember that your quota allows for you to mine ores at a rate that a legit player would mine ores at. It is only if you xray that the plugin would run out of quota for you, and then it just tells you you have to wait before mining more ores.
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I have to disagree with this plugin.
I think if you start giving people messages for "you will have to wait" just wont work. People will complain if they are going through mineshafts or ravines and the x-ray miners will just wait. Also making a helpop ticket, I dont think that would work either as when we are very busy on the server we wouldn't have time to go investigate.
What I think would be better is if it doesn't tell them they need to wait, but instead makes a note of their name and location for then a member of staff to investigate their mines when they have time.
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sounds too confusing to me...
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I have to disagree with this plugin.
I think if you start giving people messages for "you will have to wait" just wont work. People will complain if they are going through mineshafts or ravines and the x-ray miners will just wait. Also making a helpop ticket, I dont think that would work either as when we are very busy on the server we wouldn't have time to go investigate.
What I think would be better is if it doesn't tell them they need to wait, but instead makes a note of their name and location for then a member of staff to investigate their mines when they have time.
Ok, the people complaining is the beauty of it! The quota allows for more ores to be mined than one could possibly mine through, say, stripmining. THE ONLY PEOPLE who will get the message are the cheaters. If they are using Xray, and they complain about the message, then that person who is complaining is more than likely an x-ray user. Meanwhile users like myself will stripmine ores at the rate that a legit player mines, and because of that we will not hit the quota, and therefore we will have nothing to complain about.
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I have to agree with toby there. I like to mine in mineshafts and I often find a lot of good ores fairly rapidly. a Quotia would make me wait, and with mobspawning on that would be dangerous (sort of lol)
an alternative would be to have a /helpop ticket that would notify if someone dug straight down within like 2 blocks of ores and got all the ores in a cave, and have a plugin that allows the mods to see what was happening on their screen at the time. if the mods could SEE the x ray, then they wouldn't have to PROVE it :D I think the quotia is a bit daffed, but if suspicious activity is detected then an op/mod could see what they did via their own screen.
it would be extensive, but a more elegant solution, I think, then the quotia proposed.
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This just gives more work to Mods to check every Member/guest that screams that they can't mine. And if the Mod tells "This is a Plugin that Opticraft has." ragequit comes in action!
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I have hit 4 veins of diamond in a row while stip mining and i would assume this would have stopped me from mining half of that since diamond is so rare. I believe this can work if we get to adjust the rate at which you can mine ores. It is definitely worth looking into.
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I've discovered a plugin that creates "Dummy Ores", which overloads xrayers and makes lag like hell. This would stop xrayers and give them a punishment.
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That causes to much lag for the entire server I think.
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We don't want anything that costs too much resources on the server. I think that the idea chief might be the best option since it has minimal impact on the server's resources and has a fairly good success rate-- we are not completely certain, though. We'll have to give it a trial run first before we come to any definitive conclusions.
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Nick, the developer of the plugin designed the default values to be a bit higher than what a legit player would mine on average when strip mining (which is the fastest legit way to get ores). What you encountered was one of the rare occasions. That does not happen that much, but while I don't know the preset limits, you probably would have mined them all, but if you were to hit any more diamonds, then you would have gotten the message.
Also note that the developer clearly states on his page that the plugin ALLOWS for SOME X-raying. Players can get away with xray with this plugin, but only to a certain point. Sure Nick, you would have tripped the plugin for finding that many diamonds MAYBE (because you got very lucky in a somewhat rare case, and if that case is not rare then it's probably already accounted for in the default settings). However any player that trips the plugin just has a mod+ take a quick look, and if the tunnels look legit then it's all good, otherwise it would be obvious if the player was using Xray therefore the player, if cheating, then gets banned.
But then again, if strip mining 4 sets of diamonds is fairly common, then I am sure the developer, with user input, would have modified the plugin as such to accomodate that as the developer on the dev page does ask for users to post about suggested ore settings which are eventually set as the defaults for the plugin by the developer. So the defaults are the way they are because other server owners have recommended those values for the defaults. Chances are they are right on, or very close.
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it's not open source.
this plugin would only be nice if we could modify it to warn us of xrayers via helpop as they exceed their "budget" so staff could come take a look (and potentially reset their budget if they were legit). waiting for players to say "omg why cant i mine dis" is just stupid.
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If a player says "wai cnt i mien dis" then a mod just tp's to the player, and 99% of the time the tunnels will be "xray" tunnels, and then the player gets perma-banned.
Meanwhile all of the normal players will just go about their mining expedition, and their mining rate won't go higher than what the plugin would allow as they wouldn't be cheating, unless they got incredibly lucky.
Also it might be possible that the plugin writer didn't obfuscate his code. If that's the case we could reverse engineer the code as Java is easy as hell to decompile. Don't ask me though, I don't know shit about reverse engineering code.
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Also it might be possible that the plugin writer didn't obfuscate his code. If that's the case we could reverse engineer the code as Java is easy as hell to decompile. Don't ask me though, I don't know shit about reverse engineering code.
You should know enough about it to know that it is illegal.
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Also it might be possible that the plugin writer didn't obfuscate his code. If that's the case we could reverse engineer the code as Java is easy as hell to decompile. Don't ask me though, I don't know shit about reverse engineering code.
You should know enough about it to know that it is illegal.
Decompiling another person's code isn't illegal unless they have a copyright on their code (I didn't notice any sort of legal copyright on the dev page but I didnt look that hard). Illegal, probably not. Unethical, definitely.
Now I understand the whole idea of not being able to do a /helpop, but here is an idea that, for the most part, PREVENTS xray without an extremely expensive cpu overhead. Other plugins such as block percentage plugins do nothing but show possible XRay AFTER it happens, and after the ores are removed from the ground. This one catches the Xray users, and if mods get a user complaining about not being able to mine ores, then chances are that user is Xraying (the mod+ can find that out by teleporting to the user and looking at the mining cave/path). Basically you're turning down a perfectly good anti-xray plugin that is better than any I have yet to see, and all because it doesn't automatically do a /helpop ticket.
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Also it might be possible that the plugin writer didn't obfuscate his code. If that's the case we could reverse engineer the code as Java is easy as hell to decompile. Don't ask me though, I don't know shit about reverse engineering code.
You should know enough about it to know that it is illegal.
Decompiling another person's code isn't illegal unless they have a copyright on their code (I didn't notice any sort of legal copyright on the dev page but I didnt look that hard). Illegal, probably not. Unethical, definitely.
This is absolutely FALSE. Anything you produce yourself is automatically copyrighted to you and you can choose to put your name and date it if you want.
(http://www.opticraft.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FgQWK8.png&hash=09bc72926190e1652442cf5e6aa94303)
I am absolutely shocked that you are a coder, yet you do not know copyright laws.
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just go to a country where copyright laws are thrown out the window... hehe... problem solved...
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Ok, you corrected me there (you didn't have to include the insult at the end of the post tho). I thought you had to register to get a copyright.
Getting back on subject, the plugin solves a big problem, and only has a minor issue (the lack of an automatic ticket maker when a player empties their quota).
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Why don't u just ask the dev for perm to use code? XD
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To be honest, I wish Optical would give his opinion. Even without an automatic ticket maker this plugin is pure beauty!
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Also it might be possible that the plugin writer didn't obfuscate his code. If that's the case we could reverse engineer the code as Java is easy as hell to decompile. Don't ask me though, I don't know shit about reverse engineering code.
You should know enough about it to know that it is illegal.
Now I understand the whole idea of not being able to do a /helpop, but here is an idea that, for the most part, PREVENTS xray without an extremely expensive cpu overhead. Other plugins such as block percentage plugins do nothing but show possible XRay AFTER it happens, and after the ores are removed from the ground. This one catches the Xray users, and if mods get a user complaining about not being able to mine ores, then chances are that user is Xraying (the mod+ can find that out by teleporting to the user and looking at the mining cave/path). Basically you're turning down a perfectly good anti-xray plugin that is better than any I have yet to see, and all because it doesn't automatically do a /helpop ticket.
it's not JUST the fact that we can't add a little /helpop ticket when the plugin is triggered. the fact that it is not an open source plugin is worrisome enough.
we'd be at the discretion of the author alone to wait for updates.
there's no telling what kind of code is actually in the darn plugin. it could have a backdoor for all we know.
it could be plain shitty code. most of the random plugin authors have no clue about how threading works or why their code would cause lag, so we simply can't trust random closed-source plugins
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it's an okay concept and it wouldn't be terribly hard to make our own version with some improvements, but right now PVP as at the top of the priority list. there's no need to push that we use this plugin so heavily; we see the suggestion, the idea has been noted, but we're not just going to download it and throw it on the server.