Opticraft Community
Discussion forum => Legacy => Archives => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chief149 on January 17, 2013, 02:32:59 am
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So I've had an idea of making a huge rail line system now that I have a working iron farm for me to get the iron and money I'd need to build the thing.
The idea is to span a rail line which would cross the entire map. There would be an inner and outer loop for a total of 16 rail stations. Each rail station would have local lines to go to a few smaller locations which are local to the area. The local area lines would have two tracks (one departing and one arriving to avoid railway collision).
The main rail track would support 4 minecart tracks, as well as two of them that would be strictly for cargo transport (plus a single rider in order to make sure the chunks load so the materials are transported all the way down the line).
I wouldn't make this to be a private system. I don't need such a mega system, so I intend on making the system public. However I need some kinks to work out. The biggest one which could potentially solve every problem is minecart collision. I need ideas which will keep all minecarts going in one direction. On the super track two of the minecarts plus one of the cargo tracks would be going in one direction, and the other cargo and other two human tracks would go in the other direction. However I need a way to prevent players from colliding. I need a way to guarantee that my minecarts will always go in the intended direction. Even in the event of a player getting out of their minecart and attempting to push it backwards. I also need a solution to prevent collision in the event that a player teleports away from, or disconnects from the server, which would cause the minecart to be left stopped on the tracks. I need a way to allow any oncoming trains to collide with a stopped cart, but while also allowing things to keep moving in the right direction. Suggestions on this would be excellent.
Secondly, would you use a system like this? A global minecart system going around the whole world to local stops?
Benefits:
- Each station could have one or two player shops that people could rent from me to help stimulate the market
- If chest shops somehow get implemented then my stations would provide a great host for them
- Villager transport, and villager trading, would be incredibly easy with this system (same with animal trade)
- Large quantities of cargo transport would be a sinch as the redstone update would allow for an automatic load/unload system to be created on the cargo lines.
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Like the Idea but it would take a little bit to make
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Yeah this would be cool, but which world?
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I wanna help : D. My iron farm is almost done, so i can help with rails too. Also, for the colision thing, small loops of rails and you stop at a rail if you see a player.
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I wanna help : D. My iron farm is almost done, so i can help with rails too. Also, for the colision thing, small loops of rails and you stop at a rail if you see a player.
The tracks thing wont work. It needs to be an automatic system. This thing cannot rely on any human to do things right because at some point the person will screw up. I'm almost thinking of using downward slope track. Each downward sloped track will have a pressure sensor track in front of it to power it when a minecart comes by, and a push button. If there's a collision then the cart goes to the deactivated sloped track. Then player just presses the button and moves again.
Also, with the helping part, I suppose you could help, but that won't be for a while. First I need to make sure I have all of the systems and functions nailed down.
Yeah this would be cool, but which world?
New Guest world
Like the Idea but it would take a little bit to make
Someone built a 50 by 50 bedrock to sky automatic melon/pumpkin farm in one month. The entire outside is decorated with colored wool. I believe it's leganie's farm. I was told it took him only about a month to build. I think I could build this track system in less than a month minus the stations.
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Maybe use of 1.5 comperators?
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Why not member :(
Well never the less, I'll help, maybe later we could make another one in the member world?
My 100th post! Yay
Hammy
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This kind of sounds like its really just going to take up a bunch of space that guests or others couldve used to build other things.
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There's been PLENTY of people to try, hopefully you'll succeed. But don't forget, how will you protect it? It would be the perfect place to greif. Also it would be cool if people could make their own branches to their houses or cities, there would be a little place to stop too to get on the other track . I'll also help build the stations, I'm a good builder, ask goalie.
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This kind of sounds like its really just going to take up a bunch of space that guests or others couldve used to build other things.
Way to be a downer.
The stations will of course take up space like any other build, but I won't go crazy with the size of the stations.
As for the tracks, the main track tunnels will be constructed so the outer dimensions will be 7 blocks wide, 10 blocks tall.
For protection, coal PS stones I suppose being as they protect an 11 by 11 area, although for this I might apply for project protection. I know project protection normally protects bedrock to sky for the protected region, but all I'd need would be for the track segments themselves to be protected. I could even protect the stations with my own protection stones. Plus I could bury part of the main tracks to keep it out of the way a little more.
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Seems like a waste of your time, it would also be a pain to protect
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This kind of sounds like its really just going to take up a bunch of space that guests or others couldve used to build other things.
Way to be a downer.
The stations will of course take up space like any other build, but I won't go crazy with the size of the stations.
As for the tracks, the main track tunnels will be constructed so the outer dimensions will be 7 blocks wide, 10 blocks tall.
For protection, coal PS stones I suppose being as they protect an 11 by 11 area, although for this I might apply for project protection. I know project protection normally protects bedrock to sky for the protected region, but all I'd need would be for the track segments themselves to be protected. I could even protect the stations with my own protection stones. Plus I could bury part of the main tracks to keep it out of the way a little more.
Im not a downer, Im realistic.
Theres no way youd get project protection with rails going around the world. The zone for protection is a cube, basically, youd want to try to protect the entire world, or make the admins do it in little bits, which would be insanely irritating. Also, thats still pretty big, it adds up, and someone seriously could've used that space for something much more useful and nice to look at.
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This kind of sounds like its really just going to take up a bunch of space that guests or others couldve used to build other things.
Way to be a downer.
The stations will of course take up space like any other build, but I won't go crazy with the size of the stations.
As for the tracks, the main track tunnels will be constructed so the outer dimensions will be 7 blocks wide, 10 blocks tall.
For protection, coal PS stones I suppose being as they protect an 11 by 11 area, although for this I might apply for project protection. I know project protection normally protects bedrock to sky for the protected region, but all I'd need would be for the track segments themselves to be protected. I could even protect the stations with my own protection stones. Plus I could bury part of the main tracks to keep it out of the way a little more.
Im not a downer, Im realistic.
Theres no way youd get project protection with rails going around the world. The zone for protection is a cube, basically, youd want to try to protect the entire world, or make the admins do it in little bits, which would be insanely irritating. Also, thats still pretty big, it adds up, and someone seriously could've used that space for something much more useful and nice to look at.
Alicia is right, there is no way to get project protection for this. I don't think that you should abandon your project because of that, but it does mean buying a lot of protection stones. I think that this idea overall can turn out well if you put some hard work into it. If you stick to the dimensions that you have stated, I don't think it will take up that much space. Good luck.
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And I could bury it of course. I could place the tracks underground.
Project protection zones are cubes which are set using worldedit. The worldedit api is used to select a cubical area. Now, in this case, my tracks would make a square shape on the inside and outside. The idea is cpu efficiency.
If I get project protection on just the cuboids that make up the tracks, then 8 cuboids would need to be protected. These 8 cuboids would be the inner and outer squares of track (or the 4 sides of a square outlined by a main rail). However, if I use coal protection stones, hundreds of cuboids would be made, and every one of them would need to be checked by the server to ensure that the structure is not griefed. It would save a lot of cpu if the 8 segments of track were to be protected by 8 protection regions. Once again, these protected regions would not go one block past the rail tube. Lets say there are 4 extensions of track, each of which is 1000 blocks. So in other words, four stretches of 1000 block long rail tracks would be in the shape of a square. Each track tube is 7 by 10 blocks. So this means four regions would be made, each of which would be 7 X 10 X 1000 blocks. Unlike traditional city project protection where one giant cuboid going from bedrock to sky protects the area, a smaller set of cuboids do the job. Anyone would be able to build around the track. Hell, I wouldn't care if players placed blocks against the track itself so long as the internal tracks aren't griefed. The world is so huge that these tracks wouldn't get in the way.
Of course I could just use the estimated 650-700 coal protection stones required to protect the tracks. Could be more, might be less. Or just have 8 larger protections strictly protecting the main track line tubes. Anything else (the train stops and the local branching tracks) would be protected by my own protection stones.
Also alicia, who says I can't make the rails look sexy?
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I wasnt talking about the cpu usage, I was talking about how annoying/impossible it would be for the admins to zone it.
I say.
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To zone it, each segment of track (which I would keep perfectly straight for admin convenience) would need to have two coordinates selected, and then a command to set it as a protected zone followed by a command to make me the owner/allowed editor of said zone. This would need to be done no more than 8 times as the layout I'd use wouldn't require this to be done too many times.
And of course this can be placed underground if need be, and then the tracks could just be power-railed up to the station at the surface, but that part would be protected by stones. Only the 8 long stretches themselves would be project protected. Honestly it would save a lot of database space, RAM, and CPU cycles to do the project protection as opposed to using protection stones all around, but regardless, I wouldn't expect the stations to be protected. I'd just love to have the large tracks segments protected, and not one block more as I'd handle the rest.
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*hum
i am already building the ways, what also is a fast way to travel around the new guest world
(for any1 who didnt know about this... here is the link: http://www.opticraft.net/index.php/topic,16271.0.html)
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To zone it, each segment of track (which I would keep perfectly straight for admin convenience) would need to have two coordinates selected, and then a command to set it as a protected zone followed by a command to make me the owner/allowed editor of said zone. This would need to be done no more than 8 times as the layout I'd use wouldn't require this to be done too many times.
And of course this can be placed underground if need be, and then the tracks could just be power-railed up to the station at the surface, but that part would be protected by stones. Only the 8 long stretches themselves would be project protected. Honestly it would save a lot of database space, RAM, and CPU cycles to do the project protection as opposed to using protection stones all around, but regardless, I wouldn't expect the stations to be protected. I'd just love to have the large tracks segments protected, and not one block more as I'd handle the rest.
That's still a pain for admins. Pretty sure they hate zoning as it is. And what if someone builds a house above it without knowing? If say, they wanted to mine or make part of their house underground they wouldn't be able to with the zone there.
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To zone it, each segment of track (which I would keep perfectly straight for admin convenience) would need to have two coordinates selected, and then a command to set it as a protected zone followed by a command to make me the owner/allowed editor of said zone. This would need to be done no more than 8 times as the layout I'd use wouldn't require this to be done too many times.
And of course this can be placed underground if need be, and then the tracks could just be power-railed up to the station at the surface, but that part would be protected by stones. Only the 8 long stretches themselves would be project protected. Honestly it would save a lot of database space, RAM, and CPU cycles to do the project protection as opposed to using protection stones all around, but regardless, I wouldn't expect the stations to be protected. I'd just love to have the large tracks segments protected, and not one block more as I'd handle the rest.
That's still a pain for admins. Pretty sure they hate zoning as it is. And what if someone builds a house above it without knowing? If say, they wanted to mine or make part of their house underground they wouldn't be able to with the zone there.
you don't have to zone a cube.... it can be a polygon..... pretty much they'd just have to fly along the track adding the sections and they could literally zone just the blocks level with the tracks and it wouldn't prevent anyone from building in the nearby areas....
of course you'll never get protection for something like this... aside from it stretching across half the map..... you'd just be constantly adding areas as the rail system expands, and they're not gonna wanna have to rezone it every couple days
much simpler to just use coal ps, least that's how i've been building mine on member world
also a little advice.... it's kinda a huge/expensive undertaking. if you wanna do it all the power to ya, but it isn't easy.
2000 block long track, each coal ps is 11 blocks, 2000/11 = ~181, 181*1500 (per ps) = 271,500 for just the protection and that's only a single track from the border to the spawn. adding 4 tracks for each direction north/south/east/west + intersecting tracks and branches to cities ur looking at 1.5mil+ just in protection. not to mention the time of digging it all out (subway) or just placing tracks and clearing land above ground.
when all is said and done between protection/labor if you hire diggers/and supplies to build the tunnel/tracks you're looking at a good 2-2.5mil+ and to add in some kinda redstone train station you're looking at even more + the effort of figuring out how to build it...
:o it's a lotta work......
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is there really noone understanding that this is just a huge waste of materials and money
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is there really noone understanding that this is just a huge waste of materials and money
Nah thats what I was saying.
And tiggy, Im pretty sure that the admins would only do a cube. :p
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is there really noone understanding that this is just a huge waste of materials and money
Nah thats what I was saying.
And tiggy, Im pretty sure that the admins would only do a cube. :p
Nyssa did my castle as a polygon so ha! :P
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is there really noone understanding that this is just a huge waste of materials and money
It's not a waste of materials and money.
The protection wouldn't need to be reworked upon track expansion, because the main lines won'e be expanded further than the project's original specs.
The protection also would only cover the tracks, and not any other blocks. This means people could build above, below, and along the sides of the tracks. I don't care if someone builds a house directly above the tracks because the protection would prevent the tracks themself from being griefed. Also I would be putting most of the tracks under ground anyways, so there most likely wouldn't be houses placed around it.
But if there's no way I'd get project protection, then I'll just use protection stones.
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have you already started building this stuff?
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I'd be willing to donate about 60 coal ps
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It may seem like a pain, but imagine a trans-world railway? This idea seems impossible, which makes It even better! I mean, what server has this, it'll show how committed our players are. I hope an admin posts to see what they consider.
And Alicia, for the branching tracks he'll use coal ps.
I'll help build the train stations if you want.
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I have not started building. I'm still working out some kinks, and doing some preplanning on paper.
Also Nathanial has a point. I haven't seen a server that has a trans-world railway. Plus the fact ours would be built by a player (me and maybe a few others) shows true dedication. However it would be a great luxury for both myself and the server cpu to get project protection, but only on the blocks that make up the tracks once completed. No protection above, below, or on the sides. I want players to be able to build anywhere around my tracks even if someone's build uses the side of one of the lines as the wall to their house. I don't care so long as the minecart track tubes themselves are in tact.
And yes, any branching local tracks would be protected either by PS or not at all if I gather enough obsidian lol.
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Also a note to any mods+ posting, if this doesn't get project protection, it'll be like saying no to:
I haven't seen a server that has a trans-world railway. Plus the fact ours would be built by a player (me and maybe a few others) shows true dedication.
Because although we have lots of dedication there is 0.00000000000001% chance well be able to protect it with coal ps.
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Might wanna fix your quote. It makes it look as if I'm saying that last sentence there. Just a heads up my good friend.
Anyways, it's actually incredibly possible to protect the entire thing with coal PS. It's just bloody annoying, and requires that so many protection zones be made. My only concern with the protection stones is the fact that so many more protected regions have to be made which can (god forbid) bog down the server, and reduce ticks per second. Hell, I had a cactus farm (a HUGE one), and for about 20 minutes I monitored the tickrate. Then I had alicia world edit it out of existence (after cacti were removed from the market). The number of players was relatively similar, but the ticks actually improved lol. Either coincidence, or too many cacti lol.
I am indeed concerned about lagging the server which is why I would really love an admin to come on here and say whether or not I could expect to get project protection of the track segments upon their completion.
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This sounds like a lot of work. I am willing to donate. I will supply cobble if you need and maybe some iron!
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Well, it seems like any protection would not work. If you have zoned areas or protection stones, in order for people to place minecarts, or use buttons in zoned areas, you would need to add them to the zone or protected field. In doing so, you would defeat the whole purpose of protection.
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Simple, just make the part where you go in the minecart unprotected.
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you could protect it with signs... but i would be long :P
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Well, it seems like any protection would not work. If you have zoned areas or protection stones, in order for people to place minecarts, or use buttons in zoned areas, you would need to add them to the zone or protected field. In doing so, you would defeat the whole purpose of protection.
Bantam, my idea is to have project protection only on the main lines. Then I would protect the stations with my own PS stones except for the small area where the minecarts are placed. Then the only area to worry about as far as grief would be a small strip where the minecarts are placed and picked up. Although is there maybe a flag that can be set with the protection stones allowing for stuff like minecarts to be placed or picked up while also blocking any blocks from being destroyed?
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So this rail system would go across the map? If so then project protect probably wont work for the rail lines. That would be a lot of area protected.
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So this rail system would go across the map? If so then project protect probably wont work for the rail lines. That would be a lot of area protected.
You obviously haven't read the previous posts. The idea was to have only the rails be guarded by world guard. There would be 8 different protected regions.
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what is the point of protecting the lines if people cant place a minecart on them?
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*facepalm*
Didn't you read the post above?!Simple, just make the part where you go in the minecart unprotected.
And you need protection so none griefs this HUGE rail line.
There will be stations where you can get on and off.
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Ok, since people don't like reading long threads like this one to get up to date with things (totally understandable, I don't want to read 50+ posts in a thread to know what people have been saying), I will recap what's up.
So the issue at hand is protection.
What has been discussed?
Well the argument is this couldn't get protection because the whole map would have to be protected. WRONG. I would simply have 8 or 9 perfectly straight segments of minecart tracks which form the square tracks going around the map. Only the track segments (no blocks below, above, or to the sides of the tracks) would be protected. The minecart stations also wouldn't be protected by project protection. Now there would need to be 8 or 9 different project protection regions made, but that's a lot better than the hundreds required to protect the tracks with coal ores.
Now the stations themselves where the tracks are loaded and unloaded would be protected by ores. Basically it is feasible for me to protect the stations myself, unlike the main lines themselves, therefore it isn't necessary for the stations to be protected. I would simply arrange the protection stones so that the small area where the minecart is placed would be unprotected.
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Ok so that sounds better as far as my concerns with the mass protection but the problem I see is the only rails being protected. I'm not sure that the world guard or what ever system we use for city protection could be set up to protect only certain blocks. I may be wrong but that is my thinking other wise I think this is a great idea and would be used often.
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to solve the issue of getting on the line, all you need is a public dispenser at each station, put in a minecart, press a button, it places it on the track. could toss a few inbetween to in case you break your cart/something happens
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to solve the issue of getting on the line, all you need is a public dispenser at each station, put in a minecart, press a button, it places it on the track. could toss a few inbetween to in case you break your cart/something happens
that's a good idea, but I see 2 problems:
1: who's gonna keep refilling every single dispenser on the track, especially cause minecarts don't stack :/
2: who's to say some asshole isn't gonna come and take all the minecarts?
those r the only problems I can think of ATM, but there's probably more flaws
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Ok so that sounds better as far as my concerns with the mass protection but the problem I see is the only rails being protected. I'm not sure that the world guard or what ever system we use for city protection could be set up to protect only certain blocks. I may be wrong but that is my thinking other wise I think this is a great idea and would be used often.
When they set city/project protection, they just select the two specified x/z coordinates, and then expand the field from bedrock to sky.
With the protection I am wondering about in advance, the protection would only protect the 8 or 9 cuboids that are the minecart track tubes themselves which will hold the set of 4-6 rails. Then I protect the train stations using PS.
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to solve the issue of getting on the line, all you need is a public dispenser at each station, put in a minecart, press a button, it places it on the track. could toss a few inbetween to in case you break your cart/something happens
that's a good idea, but I see 2 problems:
1: who's gonna keep refilling every single dispenser on the track, especially cause minecarts don't stack :/
2: who's to say some asshole isn't gonna come and take all the minecarts?
those r the only problems I can think of ATM, but there's probably more flaws
Well assholes will b assholes nothing you can do about that
But for the rest of us we can use the honor system n put a cart back
Better yet if you're planning on going on the rail just bring your own cart, maybe even an extra to toss in for the next person, not like minecarts are expensive
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I have a solution. You protect not the rails but just thd bottom at the stations.
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Then the rails get griefed. I wouldn't care if people built their stuff hugged up right against my rails, but the rail tube and the internal structure of it must remain in tact.
Once again, project protection is just world guard basically. For each region (done one at a time as each rail line is finished one at a time), an admin would simply left click a corner of one end of the track tube, and right click the opposite corner of the opposite end of the track tube, then do the command
/region define ## Chiefl149
And that makes a worldguard region protecting just that one track tube, and it sets me as the owner of that region, and if I'm correct about worldguard, owners of a region can set flags and pretty much control the settings of that specific region. idk if I can add/remove members of a region if I'm the region owner or not tho.
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What World would this be? Member?
If so you should make pit stops at the CP cities (City Protection)
Like Sircy's Build Ecoraigalls, Scotty066AB, I have 1, and some other people aswell.
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What World would this be? Member?
If so you should make pit stops at the CP cities (City Protection)
Like Sircy's Build Ecoraigalls, Scotty066AB, I have 1, and some other people aswell.
pretty sure he's doing it on the new guest world, too lazy to find the previous post.... i however am making one on the member world and i'm thinking about how i want to connect random places to it already :P
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Good luck with the protection portion of it though. I'm kinda holding back on wanting to build this thing because it's just not realistic to place that many protection regions to protect the tracks.
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Tiggy, if your doing one on the member, may I help? My house is near spawn.
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Good luck with the protection portion of it though. I'm kinda holding back on wanting to build this thing because it's just not realistic to place that many protection regions to protect the tracks.
protecting it with coal ps isn't all too bad just puts a dent in ur $$....
Tiggy, if your doing one on the member, may I help? My house is near spawn.
its mostly just digging.....
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mmk, the outer four segments of track would each be 3000 blocks long times the four segments which make up a square. That's 12000 blocks long.
12000 / 11(coal ps) = 1090 protection stones required, and this is just the outer track.
Now for the inner track:
1000 X 4 = 4000 / 11 = 364
1090 + 364 = 1454 coal protection stones.
1454 X 1500 = 2,181,000
While I am totally capable of reaching that target amount (iron farm), I am still stuck with the issue of the numerous coal protection stones. Sure it's expensive, and I could earn the money for them, but the true issue at hand is the fact that now the server would have close to 1500 more protected regions to watch over, and that means the database would become larger to hold the data for the 1500 more regions and their flags, the server would have to loop through each region per tick, and more RAM would be used. I mean, we're talking 1500 more regions in the database, loaded in memory, etc. It's just a project that would need protection, but only of the tracks. 8 regions total would do it.