Opticraft Community

Discussion forum => Legacy => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: ViperZeroOne on June 05, 2013, 10:18:51 pm

Title: Chest Shop
Post by: ViperZeroOne on June 05, 2013, 10:18:51 pm
Even with the server market there appears to still be a demand for player-operated shops on the server.  I've had some good experience with a specific plugin for Bukkit called ChestShop.

http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-mods/chestshop/

This very simple plugin allows players to create shops with just a sign and a chest.  It links in beautifully with most economy plugins and even has the ability to function seamlessly with LWC and LogBlock.  There virtually is no database overhead because the plugin just reads the signs and links to the nearby chest.

It also has really easy permission nodes so it's a really simple addition to the permission system;

ChestShop.shop.create.* - create all types of shops
ChestShop.shop.buy - buy any item from shop
ChestShop.shop.sell - sell any item to shop
ChestShop.mod - open any shop chest, destroy stores
ChestShop.admin - open any shop chest, destroy stores, create admin shops
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: 360OLLIE on June 05, 2013, 10:34:25 pm
This suggestion has already been suggested and I'm pretty sure it was denied. If you scroll down on this suggestions page, who can see frobalt's thread asking for the same thing. I would like for this to happen though too. The closest you can get to that is just make a chestshop or chest trading machine.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: RuthlessTomato on June 05, 2013, 11:19:35 pm
Apparently there is some sort of duping glitch, but as far as I know, that was patched. And also, staff don't want players making shops right outside spawn, but, as far as I know from other servers with this plugin, that rarely ever happens. The one problem I do know with this is that there is a way to scam players

Here is the way you put in the chestshop words (on a sign above a chest)

Code: [Select]
(your username)
(number of items)
B/S(B=Buy/S=Sell)(item cost)
item name


so it might look like:

Code: [Select]
goalieguy60
1
S 500
diamond
this means that a person can sell one diamond to the chest for and in return get $500.

The problem is, people can do
Code: [Select]
goalieguy60
500
S 1
diamond
this means the person will sell 500 diamonds to the chest for one dollar. Most people will view this still as $500 for one diamond, because they see the 500 and the 1, and by common sense people will assume it is $500 for one diamond. This could be counted as scamming but other than this just read the sign carefully before a huge payment and we could be fine with this plugin. I personally give it ***** stars.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: ☣2crzy4uall☣ on June 06, 2013, 02:09:35 am
Holy shit! Hi Viper, long time no see. Anyhoo people who are determined to make shops, Like myself, can do it with redstone pretty easily.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: ViperZeroOne on June 06, 2013, 02:36:32 am
Apparently there is some sort of duping glitch, but as far as I know, that was patched.

You're correct that there WAS a duping glitch quite some time ago, but it's been removed.  It doesn't allow you to make an "invalid" sign anymore.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: Nhataley on June 06, 2013, 03:33:03 am
I have experiance with this plug-in before aswell. But I think it is not necassry because you can do it with redstone.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: frobalt on June 06, 2013, 05:27:15 pm
Apparently there is some sort of duping glitch, but as far as I know, that was patched. And also, staff don't want players making shops right outside spawn, but, as far as I know from other servers with this plugin, that rarely ever happens. The one problem I do know with this is that there is a way to scam players

Here is the way you put in the chestshop words (on a sign above a chest)

Code: [Select]
(your username)
(number of items)
B/S(B=Buy/S=Sell)(item cost)
item name


so it might look like:

Code: [Select]
goalieguy60
1
S 500
diamond
this means that a person can sell one diamond to the chest for and in return get $500.

The problem is, people can do
Code: [Select]
goalieguy60
500
S 1
diamond
this means the person will sell 500 diamonds to the chest for one dollar. Most people will view this still as $500 for one diamond, because they see the 500 and the 1, and by common sense people will assume it is $500 for one diamond. This could be counted as scamming but other than this just read the sign carefully before a huge payment and we could be fine with this plugin. I personally give it ***** stars.

(click to show/hide)

I see your point about scamming but I honestly think it should come down to the player to notice these things themselves.

I've posted a thread about chest shops before and I definitely pledge my support for this idea.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: 2468avc on June 06, 2013, 08:14:08 pm
The main reason this was denied the first time was because the staff were afraid that these shops would be spammed all over the world...
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: Nick3306 on June 06, 2013, 08:41:47 pm
The main reason this was denied the first time was because the staff were afraid that these shops would be spammed all over the world...
Pretty much this. We visited many servers over the course of how long it took us to put up the original 1.0 server and found servers with this plugin had chest shopped damn near everywhere. So we decided to not add it to this server.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: frobalt on June 06, 2013, 09:40:44 pm
The main reason this was denied the first time was because the staff were afraid that these shops would be spammed all over the world...
Pretty much this. We visited many servers over the course of how long it took us to put up the original 1.0 server and found servers with this plugin had chest shopped damn near everywhere. So we decided to not add it to this server.

When you say everywhere, do you mean as in people put chest shops in their bases or they literally set them up wherever they could so people could see them?

It's a shame there aren't ways to limit where you can place them. Obviously you could have a rule, but that would require moderators to work more which is a bit unfair on them really.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: Mr_Mr_Mr on June 07, 2013, 08:04:03 pm
Pretty much this. We visited many servers over the course of how long it took us to put up the original 1.0 server and found servers with this plugin had chest shopped damn near everywhere. So we decided to not add it to this server.
How do you think it would look if it was a donation, and if you could only make them in a separate world? (Chest shop trading world)
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: 2468avc on June 07, 2013, 08:09:24 pm
But then what would be the point? It would decrease trade among players a tremendous amount, and a few people would become billionaires off of this. Also, this world would just get spammed and people wouldn't know where to find deals that are actually reasonable.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: Kantrex on June 08, 2013, 12:21:53 am
This is awesome, especially if the times that you play on are abnormal, and mot a lot of people are on at your time.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: RuthlessTomato on June 08, 2013, 01:04:20 am
Maybe in 1.0 chestshops were everywhere, but on 10+ servers I have been on, its been fine
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: frobalt on June 08, 2013, 02:10:09 am
Maybe in 1.0 chestshops were everywhere, but on 10+ servers I have been on, its been fine

Maybe it's worth having a trial run to see how it fares on this server.

If people do start spamming shops, either they can be punished or if it gets too much the plugin can just be taken away.

I know it's a hassle, but this server is big on its economy, so implementing a chest shop would be most useful. Doing trade shops like my own aren't the same as it's harder to set accurate prices on them.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: ☣2crzy4uall☣ on June 08, 2013, 06:17:10 am
Shops are pointless now that vanilla ones can be made.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: frobalt on June 08, 2013, 06:41:24 am
Shops are pointless now that vanilla ones can be made.

I completely disagree.

Do you know why currency, such as the pound and dollar, is used? It's because it is a common thing that people want. Without it, you have to trade items for other items, which isn't as easy to do as you might want something from someone else but they don't want what you have.

That is the same for real life as it is in minecraft - There is no currency in vanilla minecraft, so vanilla shops deal with trading items.

Sure, you can make people pay with an item that can be sold on the market, but then you're placing a limit on your customers somewhat, as they have to use that item to pay. It also over-complicates the process as it makes it harder to estimate the actual price of goods in $s, for both seller and buyer, which also makes it harder to compare prices between merchants. Personally, the currency I use is stone and gravel, depending on how expensive I deem an item.

Also, there is the building process of a vanilla shop - As far as I am aware, all designs require nether quartz, which is easy enough to acquire on a fresh nether, but not so easy to acquire on the nether we have, as you have to go very far out to even get any, which takes quite a while. The designs of vanilla shops take up far more space than a chest shop from a plugin, and these plugin chest shops are much easier to build.

I'm of the opinion that the reasons against chest shops are flimsy; The main argument posed against them is that they could be spammed everywhere, but surely chests can be spammed everywhere as they are anyway?

Although, I'm under the impression that this opposition is raised purely for aesthetic reasons; IE, the people in charge don't want to see loads of chest shops everywhere as it wouldn't look so good. I am unsure of how the chest shop plugins work though, so is it for performance reasons or do the chest shops take up as much storage space as the sign and chests would by themselves?

It's worth noting that these vanilla chest shops can also be place anywhere. The design I use is fairly compact and would be easy enough to build out in the open so people could shop there

I know my opinions alone won't change the minds of the people in charge here, but I've seen it pointed out that this suggestion has been brought up quite a lot, which shows there is demand for such a system to be in place.

Overall, I can see adding chest shops as only being a good thing;
It will make trading more secure as the process of receiving an item and paying for it are done at the same time.
It will encourage more people to open shops and therefore make the server more social.

Sure, you'll get someone that will try and use the system to grief, but that will be the case with most features, and you can't make everything 100% grief proof unfortunately. All you can do is punish those that do grief.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: DeeKay on June 08, 2013, 08:45:30 am
If we needed them, I think Nick, Nyssa, or Relkeb would have stepped in at some point and said so.
The points you make are true, but it comes down to how far we want to push the survival wall we have around the server (whatever's left of it)

Without looking at the pros and the cons, which it seems every suggestion topic is, a better question is, is it exactly essential right now? Do we really need it?
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: Mr_Mr_Mr on June 08, 2013, 09:00:20 am
Shops are pointless now that vanilla ones can be made.

(click to show/hide)
That is one hell of an argument you're got there, how old are you?
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: 2468avc on June 08, 2013, 12:55:16 pm
Yes frobalt, but why would this make the server better? We have an economy. All plugin chestshops would do would be to be able to get money, and pretty soon all the chestshops will be empty. That's the difference between a vanilla chestshop and a plugin one. You have to stock vanilla shops but not plugin ones.

This suggestion is just here to try and make gameplay easier, which is why I am against it.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: frobalt on June 08, 2013, 01:49:47 pm
If we needed them, I think Nick, Nyssa, or Relkeb would have stepped in at some point and said so.
The points you make are true, but it comes down to how far we want to push the survival wall we have around the server (whatever's left of it)

Without looking at the pros and the cons, which it seems every suggestion topic is, a better question is, is it exactly essential right now? Do we really need it?

I wouldn't say we 'need' it per se, just that it'd be a nice feature to have that would improve trading on this server.
Shops are pointless now that vanilla ones can be made.

(click to show/hide)
That is one hell of an argument you're got there, how old are you?


I'm 22.
Yes frobalt, but why would this make the server better? We have an economy. All plugin chestshops would do would be to be able to get money, and pretty soon all the chestshops will be empty. That's the difference between a vanilla chestshop and a plugin one. You have to stock vanilla shops but not plugin ones.

This suggestion is just here to try and make gameplay easier, which is why I am against it.

I'd hope that any good chest shop plugin would only allow you to sell items if you have it in a chest nearby. The only (functional) difference between a (good) chest shop plugin and vanilla chest should should be that you are using a common currency rather than an item. 1 chest shop plugin I checked out forces you to fill the chest anyway. Is there 1 that doesn't?
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: andersad on June 08, 2013, 02:48:24 pm
Shops are pointless now that vanilla ones can be made.

(click to show/hide)
That is one hell of an argument you're got there, how old are you?
     Lol Ikr.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: Nick3306 on June 08, 2013, 03:23:55 pm
As I have said before, Optical, Relkeb, and I decided quite a while ago that we were not going to use any chest shop plugin unless we could find away to prevent spam. That still holds true to this very day.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: ViperZeroOne on June 08, 2013, 03:55:13 pm
Well, I absolutely see Nick's point.  This plugin would allow people to basically just put a whole bunch of stores all over the map which isn't very fetching to see.  I don't agree that it makes SMP any easier, because people still have to earn money to buy the items and the store managers still have to keep the stores stocked with items.  Do we need it right now?  Well, I'm going to say a strong maybe since I do see a lot of chat messages with people asking for items that aren't available in the server market.

I do respect the decision you guys have made on this plugin in the past, but if the only reason to say "no" is due to not wanting shops popping up all over the place then you may need to revisit that decision.  You can now build stores using vanilla methods and redstone.  If not built properly however, these stores can easily rip off players where-as the plugin has more control to prevent that from happening.  In addition, these redstone shops (some of which use clocks) might be a higher resource hog than a simple plugin.  Regardless weather or not you allow the plugin you're going to start to see stores popping up around the map, which is why I thought the topic might need a revisit.

At any rate, I will still respect whatever decision is made on the subject.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: Chief149 on June 08, 2013, 06:12:45 pm
Perhaps there could be some sort of player trade plugin made? Instead of chest shops, how about a server chat-based market. You can list stuff for sale or auction, and others can buy or bid.

The only time the plugin would ever send data through chat would be when sending data to players using the commands. No chat spam, no chest shop spam everywhere.
Title: Re: Chest Shop
Post by: Mr_Mr_Mr on June 08, 2013, 08:09:10 pm
Perhaps there could be some sort of player trade plugin made? Instead of chest shops, how about a server chat-based market. You can list stuff for sale or auction, and others can buy or bid.

The only time the plugin would ever send data through chat would be when sending data to players using the commands. No chat spam, no chest shop spam everywhere.
We basically already have this on the forums.

Edit: I believe the decision is made once again so I'm going to lock the topic.