Opticraft Community
Discussion forum => Legacy => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Chief149 on June 09, 2013, 02:20:43 am
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Ok, people want Chest Shops, but there could be too much spam. However there could be just as much spam with vanilla shops, but there isn't. This is most likely due to the fact that it takes time and a lot of supplies to make a vanilla shop, therefore they aren't as common.
I now have two possible solutions:
1) Make one of the items in the server market have an equal buy and sell price. I would personally recommend Iron. Iron in the market can be sold to the market for $25 per ingot. If Iron ingots in the market were set to where you could buy ingots from the market for $25 AND sell them for $25 (in other words if I bought an iron ingot from the market, and then sold it back immediately after, I wouldn't gain nor lose any money). How does this solve the chest shop problem? Well, vanilla shops are trading items for items. The argument is you can't do credits for items. So this fix would make it where people could buy items from vanilla shops for credits, but there would be that one extra step of first buying an item such as ingots from the market before spending the ingots at the vanilla chest shop. Then the owner of the chest shop can simply sell the ingots back to the market to make the credits back. No money is created or destroyed. Just transferred.
2) Modify the chest shop plugin so the chest shop will only work if the chest holding the chest shop items is placed on a pyramid. This would be a two layered pyramid. The bottom (base) layer would need to be a 3 by 3 set of iron blocks. The second (top) layer would need to be a single block of quartz block. This would represent the high cost of iron and quartz that vanilla shops have, and the footprint of space needed by the chest shops would be larger (albeit not nearly as large as the footprint taken up by a vanilla shop.
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I like that solutions could be thought up with for this.
If we went with 1 though, there would need to be other items that were also able to be bought for the same price as sold, as a lot of chest shop designs only allow a 1:1 ratio.
If we went with the idea of modifying where you could place shops, I think it'd be much easier to program if they were only allowed within the radius of a protection stone.
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Frobalt, you don't need multiple items to sell and buy for the same price. Just 1. It is insanely easy to make a chest shop give more than 1 item when 1 item is placed inside. You simply add a repeater-delay which takes input from the iron ingot acceptor, and then the relay's output goes to the output hopper. I designed a delay system which allows my shops to give, for example, 50 wood plank blocks for 1 iron ingot. It's designed so each repeater in the delay (set at 4 redstone ticks) will make the shop give 2 of an item. You can set a repeater to 2 ticks to make it dispense 1 item. It really is very easy to do.
Really, the ONLY thing that vanilla shops need in order to have all of the functionality of a chest shop is an automated way for players to exchange their credits in their balance for a common item which can be used as a currency. In my case, I am suggesting iron ingots be used as a common item currency. Then if you want your shop setup where players can buy your things from it using their credits, they just have to go get iron ingots. Then you judge what your shop puts out based on the market price of ingots.
You can even design your shop to not dispense stuff until a certain number of iron ingots is put in using a hopper counter. Really simple to make, and the design makes it where the shop doesn't send an output signal to the repeater delays until a certain number of an item is put in. For example, 2crzy has a shop which takes 3 iron ingots before it will give you a gold ingot.
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There is a way to make it so that every time you create a chest shop it will charge you. We could make it like $500 for a shop so they aren't overly spammed.
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Another great idea suggested by Goalie Guy, but I would go higher, like 1,500 to make a new chest shop. After all, you don't see coal PS's spammed everywhere (well, you do, but only in the old guest world since it's so old and has had plenty of time to become a huge mess of grief.
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Another great idea suggested by Goalie Guy
oh yeah.
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They're apparently not going to be revisiting the store plugins, so here are some tutorials for different ways to build the vanilla stores (for those who want stores). They aren't as hard to build as some might think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWnQKjBRQwQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwSP_xkp5DE (Best One, in my opinion)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE7DZwRCOZM
Enjoy folks!
Note: Most of these shops don't have an auto-shutoff feature for when they run out of items, so be sure to add one to keep your customers from being ripped off.
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chief built a shop that has a light that goes off when the shop is empty and then the shop wont eat any items anymore too.
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Yea, you can just use a redstone chest to hold the sale items and a comparitor beside it hooked to a light that will go out when the chest is empty.
I'm making a very small 3-slot store on my island using the second (very compact) shop design.
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Yea, you can just use a redstone chest to hold the sale items and a comparitor beside it hooked to a light that will go out when the chest is empty.
I'm making a very small 3-slot store on my island using the second (very compact) shop design.
You're welcome lol......
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The design you like is the one 360OLLIE and I built. I'm fairly sure we were the first on opti to use that design.
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That design is bad, a separate input and output, also it clogs.
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The design you like is the one 360OLLIE and I built. I'm fairly sure we were the first on opti to use that design.
That design is bad, a separate input and output, also it clogs.
Does it matter? =P
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That design is bad, a separate input and output, also it clogs.
Not that bad of a design, and the only way it clogs is if some idiot puts 8 different wrong items in the payment box. In that case, the idiot looses their items and the store doesn't rip off anyone because it won't accept any payment when it's clogged. It's still a good design when you need a very compact store like what I'm building.
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That design is bad, a separate input and output, also it clogs.
Not that bad of a design, and the only way it clogs is if some idiot puts 8 different wrong items in the payment box. In that case, the idiot looses their items and the store doesn't rip off anyone because it won't accept any payment when it's clogged. It's still a good design when you need a very compact store like what I'm building.
Yea, you just gotta remember to clean it out often to try and avoid that. Also, just asking this: My chestshop isn't very popular is a sense that people don't know about it. So if someone comes by the chestshop and later the hopper that takes all the unwanted stuff is clogged, if the person filled it purposely just to troll, can they be punished in any sort of way? If they're just a noob to chestshops though and they somehow couldn't figure out what to do, then leave them be. Though it would be impossible to know what the person's purpose in filling the unit was without personal interview.
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Considering you could avoid it by making it not clog, I don't think we would ban them.
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Wouldn't it be possible to attach another hopper to the filter to reduce clogs? Then attach that hopper to a chest?
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Just make the sorter the first hopper, anyway this is offtopic. I honestly don't expect us to ever get a chest shop plugin.
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I don't really think this is off-topic, since we are talking about solutions to the chest shop...
I tried making the first hopper be the sorter, but when you load in the "filter" items it just tosses all of them into the second hopper. Maybe if there was a chest between the first and second hoppers you could use the first hopper as the filter and the second hopper as the "trigger" for the circuit to release the purchased item. It wouldn't really make a big change to the circuit at all, but might stop the clogging issue. Sorta like this;
BOX (payment)
HOPPER (filter)
BOX (buffer)
HOPPER (trigger) --------> Circuit to release product to customer.
BOX ("cash" storage)
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Far too complicated, I can show you in game, they are quite simple and compact.
The lineup is
Payment
Filter
Trigger
Cash storage
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Far too complicated, I can show you in game, they are quite simple and compact.
The lineup is
Payment
Filter
Trigger
Cash storage
That's exactly my setup, except when I load items into the filter they fall into the trigger and then into the cash storage. The only way around that (I found) was to put the filter items in the trigger, which allows the "filter" to get clogged by junk.
Then again, there could be something I'm missing...
Filter items should be 18_1_1_1_etc, and Trigger should be empty, right?
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I as never good at this stuff. I gave up trying to work it out about my third day. :P
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your timing is off, the trigger takes keeps 1 item at all times, if the filter is being emptied, you have a timing issue with the trigger.
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your timing is off, the trigger takes keeps 1 item at all times, if the filter is being emptied, you have a timing issue with the trigger.
So the problem with my setup is, I don't have an item in the trigger?... Makes sense
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I should mention that this suggestion was not for there to be a chest shop plugin.
The alternative to a chest shop that I wanted to emphasize would be making an item in the server market, such as iron ingots, have the same buy and sell price. This would fix the problem that vanilla shops pose which is that players cannot use credits to purchase items from a vanilla shop. With a chest shop plugin-based shop you can, but if an item in the market is given the same buy and sell price, then players could buy said item from the market, use it to pay for goods from a vanilla shop, and then the shop owner can sell the item back to the market for credits. This requires no new plugins, and keeps shops relatively limited. Plus there currently is no issue with shop advertisements being spammed everywhere, therefore I wouldn't expect it to start being as the chest shop plugin itself wouldn't be introduced in the first place.
All this suggestion needs to be implemented is for a single item to be given the same buy and sell price in the market.
Also, those of you making redstone shops, it's quite simple to make a shop. Mine being a little complex use a total footprint of 6 blocks wide by 8 blocks deep (the 8 blocks deep includes the wall which has the redstone lamp built into it). The shop is wider and lengthier because I designed it to only be 3 blocks high (technically 1 piece of redstone extends up to the 4th block high, but I don't count that).
Of course if you want the system to dispense more than 1 item for the cost of a single item (ex: 1 gold ingot for 32 wool), then you do need to increase the length of the shop with a timer. I was able to add a 32 item timer (makes the shop give 32 of an item for the payment) that only extended the length of the shop by 5 blocks. It didn't make the shop footprint any higher or wider.
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I like your suggestion, but one thing that bothers me is: How easy it is for most people to get access to the quartz needed to make the comparators? As far as I'm aware, all vanilla shop designs rely on nether quartz.
I've got more than enough quartz myself, but it took me about an hour and a half to travel far enough in the nether to find any in the first place, and it has been well earnt.
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I like your suggestion, but one thing that bothers me is: How easy it is for most people to get access to the quartz needed to make the comparators? As far as I'm aware, all vanilla shop designs rely on nether quartz.
I've got more than enough quartz myself, but it took me about an hour and a half to travel far enough in the nether to find any in the first place, and it has been well earnt.
You can buy nether quartz in the market...
Sure it's expensive to buy in the market, but it's easily obtainable if you just sell a bunch of dirt and cobble and iron until you can buy the quartz.
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I like your suggestion, but one thing that bothers me is: How easy it is for most people to get access to the quartz needed to make the comparators? As far as I'm aware, all vanilla shop designs rely on nether quartz.
I've got more than enough quartz myself, but it took me about an hour and a half to travel far enough in the nether to find any in the first place, and it has been well earnt.
You can buy nether quartz in the market...
Sure it's expensive to buy in the market, but it's easily obtainable if you just sell a bunch of dirt and cobble and iron until you can buy the quartz.
I must be blind then, 'cause I can't find it. Or are there 2 markets?
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I like your suggestion, but one thing that bothers me is: How easy it is for most people to get access to the quartz needed to make the comparators? As far as I'm aware, all vanilla shop designs rely on nether quartz.
I've got more than enough quartz myself, but it took me about an hour and a half to travel far enough in the nether to find any in the first place, and it has been well earnt.
You can buy nether quartz in the market...
Sure it's expensive to buy in the market, but it's easily obtainable if you just sell a bunch of dirt and cobble and iron until you can buy the quartz.
I must be blind then, 'cause I can't find it. Or are there 2 markets?
there are 3.
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I like your suggestion, but one thing that bothers me is: How easy it is for most people to get access to the quartz needed to make the comparators? As far as I'm aware, all vanilla shop designs rely on nether quartz.
I've got more than enough quartz myself, but it took me about an hour and a half to travel far enough in the nether to find any in the first place, and it has been well earnt.
You can buy nether quartz in the market...
Sure it's expensive to buy in the market, but it's easily obtainable if you just sell a bunch of dirt and cobble and iron until you can buy the quartz.
I must be blind then, 'cause I can't find it. Or are there 2 markets?
there are 3.
How do you get to the other 2?
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The other two shops that are referenced are the Member world market, and the Old Guest world market (which is not up to date with the current guest market)
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The other two shops that are referenced are the Member world market, and the Old Guest world market (which is not up to date with the current guest market)
Thanks xeadin. Sorry for being confusing.
Back in the day, we only had one market!
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Getting back on topic...
What are the chances that we could have one item in the market become a "item of currency"? As in, one single item in the market being given the exact same buy and sell price thus allowing vanilla shops to be just as functional as a plugin-based chest shop since credits could be used to buy the shop items.
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It's kinda hard to explain, but I'm pretty sure there's a reason to why the buy price is higher than the sell price...
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Well, it's like that to discourage people from buying and selling to and from the market. It also allows players to sell items that they obtain for less than what the server market sells items for to players. Meanwhile the sell price is lower so players can sell items to other players for prices higher than the server market price. It is setup to discourage players from using the server market, and trading with each other instead.
All I am suggesting is that a single item be given an identical buy and sell price so it can be used as an item currency for player's vanilla shops.
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Type /market at these locations.
/spawn (Has quartz)
/warp memberworld
/warp guest2 (has iron block sell)