Opticraft Community
Discussion forum => Legacy => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: DeVil.DeMonde on September 25, 2011, 08:30:42 am
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I'm not sure what's desired exactly for the devs/host/ops but I have noticed an outcry among players for protection of their builds, bases, and homes.
On the boards here I saw a request for secure trading.
What I can do is tell you what was running on my test server and what I know works as well as what was running on MCSteamed.
As well as other methods we've used to help make the server successful. (Our downfall was immature staff.)
Of course we ran everything through bukkit. Sometimes this broke more than it fixed, but more often than not that simply wasn't the case.
Some I see you have already (like Bukkit).
BigBrother We used this one for block edit history. Outdated for the time being and i see the author suggest logblock which you use.
BlastControl We used this for greater and easily changeable Creeper and TNT customization.
CreatureBox Everwish your staff could move spawners or create spawners that gave more than pigs? This is the toy.
General We used this for all the God and all the other goodies that were staff perks.
Help yeah that one is pretty much self explanitory.
Permissions we used it because it worked and PermissionsEx wasn't out yet.
HeriocDeath We had it, you have it, I still love it.
iChat we used it for all those lovely titles and text color it worked.
iConomy we used this for our comprehensive in game economy which I'll explain in a bit.
LWC we used it, you use it, it works, enough said.
MyHome had great housing commands.
MyWarp, you have it so you can obviously see some of the great qualities.
Residence when coupled with worldedit, worldguard, iconomy, and permissions, it shines as the best way for players to be able to protect their own land from sky to bedrock, if they have the money.
SignShop and this was the meat and potatoes of the economy, players were able to buy and sell to each other, and for those really rare items pay the server (bank) if they had enough money to get them.
We were still playing with IRC but I'm pretty sure it was heroicchat YLT was implementing.
Yeah that's pretty much the meat and taters of the whole thing.
Ranks were as follows.
Default were those that were logged in either registered or unregistered (though if we could auto rank like you suggest with opticraft I'd have done guests that changed to default on register)
Builders were players that were known, and didn't grief.
Trusted were builders who went above and beyond to help the community as well (with this rank came the ability to place public warp points)
Donors got their own special rank regardless of money donated, as well as other little perks such as the ability to teleport via world edit commands and protect their homes for free.
Mods were helpful players that used to be trusted but were granted staff features to keep an eye on the server and ban players if need be. Bans by a mod always had to be extremely well justified and documented.
Admins were responsible for checking over the previously mentioned bans, and making sure the server was running, they were our ops.
Host were those in charge of the hardware.
Everybody's rank displayed via iChat in game so there was no question about who had what ability.
New players started with $30 and that was it. In order to gain more they had to either sell items, or hold onto their money and earn interest. Interest was earned for every 30 minutes active in the game world at a rate of 5%. Profits from interest were made slowly but for the thrifty compounded quickly but prices were usually set accordingly.
Feel free to ask me for more details on anything.
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@MarshyTheMan - Please dont post stupid shit. Read the topic and subforum you are posting in before replying.
Hey, thanks for the lengthy post. I really appreciate it!
I'll try address most of your points about plugins and suggestions.
Help yeah that one is pretty much self explanitory.
What is this? A help plugin? That would be extremely useful, if you could point me in the right direction that would be great, but i will look into it myself now.
MyHome had great housing commands.
What else did it have that we dont have atm (We have HomeSpawnPlus, iirc)
iChat we used it for all those lovely titles and text color it worked.
Were using ChatManager which is bundled with PermissionsEx, but i think im going to switch over to HeroChat pretty soon..
Now, onto the economy.
I really, really want to implement economy. I think it is an excellent tool for any survival server. Coupled with SignShops this is a major part of gameplay, that will be coming soon.
Do you have any idea on how easy it is to setup a proper economy system? It is the kind of thing i would like to get right the first time. The 5% interest sounds pretty insane - sounds like it would explode very quickly.
Once again, appreciate the feedback a lot, don't get much useful feedback around here!
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On that note, something in IRC has gone wrong.
All messeges now say: <&Optibot-beta> <Message here>
Not <&Optibot-beta> <Name of person ingame> <Message>
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Hey, thanks for the lengthy post. I really appreciate it!
I'll try address most of your points about plugins and suggestions.
No worries, I like to help.
Help yeah that one is pretty much self explanitory.
What is this? A help plugin? That would be extremely useful, if you could point me in the right direction that would be great, but i will look into it myself now.
That is exactly what it is. One sec I'll fetch the link. http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/info-help-3-a-smarter-help-1060.13601/ (http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/info-help-3-a-smarter-help-1060.13601/)
MyHome had great housing commands.
What else did it have that we dont have atm (We have HomeSpawnPlus, iirc)
The ability to invite people to your home via command or revoke that same invitation, set a home as public or private (warping), and delete your home.
iChat we used it for all those lovely titles and text color it worked.
Were using ChatManager which is bundled with PermissionsEx, but i think im going to switch over to HeroChat pretty soon..
Yeah we talked about that. I've never tried HeroChat though from what i see if it works it's the best solution.
Now, onto the economy.
I really, really want to implement economy. I think it is an excellent tool for any survival server. Coupled with SignShops this is a major part of gameplay, that will be coming soon.
Do you have any idea on how easy it is to setup a proper economy system? It is the kind of thing i would like to get right the first time. The 5% interest sounds pretty insane - sounds like it would explode very quickly.
Once again, appreciate the feedback a lot, don't get much useful feedback around here!
It was super easy to set up as i set it up on my test server and a production server as well, the hardest part was teaching the players how to use SignShop.
5% For players sounds huge but at 30 min intervals it's not as bad as you might think. You have to take into account how long players stay logged in of course. But at 5% that initial $30 only grants about $1.5 every half hour of playing, and yes they must be logged in to get it (coupled with an idle kicker it would work SUPER well) Shoot even somebody with already $1000 only earns $50 every half hour. Now if Diamond costs $100 per (kinda like in real life) That player would have to play for an hour just to afford ONE diamond. Not too bad, he may be able to dig up some quicker, or he can blow a chunk of his cash.
On that note, something in IRC has gone wrong.
All messeges now say: <&Optibot-beta> <Message here>
Not <&Optibot-beta> <Name of person ingame> <Message>
Yup Claw I think we're all aware of that one. ;) At least anybody who has logged into the IRC channel.
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I almost forgot to mention that via residence a lot of staff issues were alleviated as players were made responsible for their own protections. When somebody had an issue with griefing it was investigated, if their home was not protected they were asked why. The griefer of course is caught and punished, but the player learns a little lesson in self-defense. Eventually griefing is brought to a minimum.
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Nt sure if this is considered shity, but what perks do builders have?
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Nt sure if this is considered shity, but what perks do builders have?
There are no builders on this server currently. (As I know, there could be)
DeVil is saying there were builders on his server, right?
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On our server builders had various permissions and sometimes discounts that other players didn't. For instance a builder could open a store with SignStore. Builders on this server might get access to waterbuckets. And beyond that maybe a trusted builder could have access to lava. it all depends on how the staff wants to handle it.
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Lava and fire would be good for trusted. But I like the idea of a rank between default and trusted. Maybe a better title like villager or something. Builder on SMP seems weird..
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Lava and fire would be good for trusted. But I like the idea of a rank between default and trusted. Maybe a better title like villager or something. Builder on SMP seems weird..
I already suggested a rank above trusted, below op. Trusted seems like a recruit in classic (lava, water etc.)
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Having too many ranks complicate things. Plus will we still get interest if we dc halfway? Ppl dc very often.I feel the rank system is now ok...I also suggested having a warp donation program. And abt the shop it really makes things complicated can't we just use gold ingots to trade instead of the $ thingy.....the shop system can be made like the runescape grand exchange, where we can buy materials only if someone else is selling it, so as to prevent people from flooding the server with a certain item eg diamond, and reduce the value of diamond. I say this as people can donate then use the money to buy alot of diamonds and than start distributing for free, and then hard working miners will realize that their diamonds are worthless now. There should't be too many ranks, as it complicates things, and possibly discrimination may occur.... Nice effort for making a long post after joining opticraft forum for 4 days lol xP, how did u come to know about it?
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An economy system would be good, but interest would only separate rich from poor players. When a player reach a certain amount of money, he could live of the rents, getting tens of thousands of $ each hour (what Optical meant by "explode").
Edit: D00m summed up what I think is the best system.
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I agree with morten that a gold based economy would be best, but to be honest, i have never really witnessed a money economy like the one suggested.
And optical, i give you all my feedback either in game or on mumble so saying you don't get much useful feedback isn't quite accurate.
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And optical, i give you all my feedback either in game or on mumble so saying you don't get much useful feedback isn't quite accurate.
Only a handful of people actually provide me with quality feedback, which isn't much at all.
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@Optic
What about a pvp system? Where you could be able to turn your pvp on and off and fight people?
Please dont hijack this topic. Post a new one.
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@Optic
What about a pvp system? Where you could be able to turn your pvp on and off and fight people?
Please dont hijack this topic. Post a new one.
Yes, preferably the thread we already have on pvp.
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I'll do my best to address each person's criticisms of the system one at a time.
Having too many ranks complicate things.
You are correct having too many ranks can complicate things but no more so than having too many staff. Or worse staff who want to do their own thing not inline with the host or dev's ideas for the server. How does one decide how many ranks are too many? Guest, Registered, Regular, Trusted member, Donator, Guide, Admin, and Owner doesn't seem like to many to me. Each has a purpose, each is recognized for their own contributions, each has a growing level of responsibility. You can always trim away some ranks by removing say trusted and donator but it is my experience on multiple servers that not all staff should have the ability to do all things.
Plus will we still get interest if we dc halfway? Ppl dc very often.
Nope, on for the whole 30 minutes or no interest, if set to 15 min then must be on for the whole 15 or no interest. If people have connection drops that prevent them from being connected for more than 30 minutes at a time it's suggested they fix the issue with their connection as this is not common in a reliable internet connection. If they have a timer or something they can let staff know and the time and percent of interest earned can be adjusted. I only posted what worked for my server.
I also suggested having a warp donation program.
Having set amounts for donations tends to discourage people from donating. Having an open system where they choose and get perks for even donating an amount as low as $5 encourages it heavily. I've seen this in action. With my system they get nothing godly but don't get completely ignored for only having $5 to spare either.
And abt the shop it really makes things complicated can't we just use gold ingots to trade instead of the $ thingy.....the shop system can be made like the runescape grand exchange, where we can buy materials only if someone else is selling it, so as to prevent people from flooding the server with a certain item eg diamond, and reduce the value of diamond. I say this as people can donate then use the money to buy alot of diamonds and than start distributing for free, and then hard working miners will realize that their diamonds are worthless now.
What you are talking about is a barter system. This is how an economy starts in a primitive culture. There are a few problems with it though which are as follows.
1. If a player doesn't have anything in which the trader wants no deal can be made and a player who desperately needs the materials goes away empty handed.
2. If you can only trade when people are online, what happens to the players who are on when very few others are? They walk away with nothing.
I understand your concerns, but what you are saying is actually not entirely possible in a free market economy. Primarily because diamonds are only ever present on a server in finite amounts. Secondly is if Player1 does try to low ball the economy a savvy business minded Player2 can go buy up Player1's reserves and resell for a significant profit Player1 is foolish. Basics of economics, buy low sell high.
I have no idea what you are talking about regarding "I say this as people can donate then use the money to buy alot of diamonds and than start distributing for free" Where did they get all this money, or who is selling diamonds so cheaply? Where did all the diamonds come from? Sounds like a high ranking staff member might need to investigate and maybe remove the source.
There should't be too many ranks, as it complicates things, and possibly discrimination may occur...
LOL you've said that about 3 times in the same post, but I am curious where you think this discrimination would come from. As staff on many games and servers before I've always seen the best adopt a Zero tolerance policy on discrimination.
Nice effort for making a long post after joining opticraft forum for 4 days lol xP, how did u come to know about it?
I'm not sure if that was meant in an offensive manner or not, but I will assume not. The post was made at the request of another player who told me optic would greatly value the experience and the feedback it provided.
The server I used to play on regularly (as a player mind you not staff) Tanked when the host through inexperience had inexperienced staff make a lot of new inexperienced staff. This ended up their personal playground and all the other players including donors left. With nobody playing and all the donors gone it was just a matter of time before it all collapsed like a house built of cards. One of the servers I staffed the host got tired of complaints but didn't know how to deal with them and opted to close the server versus listening to people cry. The other one even though I designed the server, the host and I clashed Idea wise so I opted to let him have his way and departed. I quit playing for a while and came back (4 days ago) to find the results I have already mentioned on my previous servers, and thus set out to find a new home.
Things I look for in a server are as follows: Friendly and helpful community with a mature foundation. Staff that doesn't just spawn whatever they want. A server where players have to actually work for what they want kind of like vanilla Minecraft(where all the fun is). And close geographic proximity (it said the server was in the US on Minecraft.net and I get decent ping).
An economy system would be good, but interest would only separate rich from poor players. When a player reach a certain amount of money, he could live of the rents, getting tens of thousands of $ each hour (what Optical meant by "explode").
Edit: D00m summed up what I think is the best system.
Math question for you. At what amount of money would a player already have to have to earn $10,000 in interest every 30min at a 5% return? it's probably more than you think, and you have to question how that player received that much money so quickly in the first place. If it's through time spent on the server and work done, do they not deserve it?
What D00m described is a barter system. Barter systems encourage hoarding of goods and the exact type of separation you guys are so much against.
I agree with morten that a gold based economy would be best, but to be honest, i have never really witnessed a money economy like the one suggested.
See the above notes on a barter system.
A currency based economy is a beautiful thing to behold. Everybody can easily get and amass currency, not just the elite who know the best way to get gold or had a head start on the server.
Give it some thought, ask me more questions. Pick at different parts. I'm more than happy to answer and address any concerns. I will always do my best to do so fairly and impartially as possible as well.
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A gold standard system is not the same as a full on barter system because gold is not useful for anything else. Even with a currency system a barter system will still exist.
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Thanks Devil for posting this, after our conversation, i quickly realised that you had alot to offer to our comunity..
To be brutally honest, i dont understand half the stuff you are talking about (i can build, but i generally suck at computers) but i do agree on what i can grasp :)
I was going to post a tread myself, but after reading yours, i realize i dont have to..
I do wana state why i wantet to post myself..
Lately ive been griefed alot, not by guests, but by opticraft staff... After a week of this i exploded, same day we had the talk.
The thing i wana stress is WE NEED PROTECTION!!!
I dont have a problem with ppl not taking beta "serius".. thats their problem.. But this seem to lead to a total lack of respect for what others have created..
Ive heard comments like " i break into ppls houses and their mines to get into caves"
WTF ??? and this is from opticraft staff, i am truely horrified by comments like these..
Ive played on servers with protection, and this totallly solves the problem..
As i said, your tread goes way beyond what i have to offer in support to Opti, so thanks again for posting Devil, i allready have a great deal of respect for your attitude ingame, and in the forums.
See you inside
Muhnator
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What exactly do you mean by protection? If you are getting griefed by members lets us know and we will deal with those people.
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What exactly do you mean by protection? If you are getting griefed by members lets us know and we will deal with those people.
Well, b4 opti made the beta server, i played on a server called supremeserver...
Basicly what protection is, you call an op, and he makes an entire area only "breakble" for the player who lives there, noone else can break blocks of any kind in the protected "cube".. This is from the bedrock, and to the top of the skies..
This way, outsiders cant break doors, walls well anything... they cant mine into the playes mines either, as long as the protected player stays in his area ofc..
Protecting an area took an op around 10 sek..
This solves so many problems, especially with the current issues we got on the server..
About the staffmember... I really dont wana mention names. Atm he is behaving normal, and my rage towards him has turned into pitty.. But if it happends again ill post the name for sure, since this is not the first time i see him involved in stuff that anoys the shit out of ppl..
He seems to walk a fine line of acting mature when there are admins/ops online, but then when he sees that hes alone, the insanely childish attitude comes alive. If anyone argues with him, they basicly get the message, "Im op in classic fu"
Muhnator
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I dont see a need for protective zoning in our SMP server, what if you want to make your house bigger than the zone? An Op would have to keep coming back.
And how would it protect your mine that is underground?
And if this member was bothering you that much you should have come to us, we know more about players behaviors than you think.
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I dont see a need for protective zoning in our SMP server, what if you want to make your house bigger than the zone? An Op would have to keep coming back.
And how would it protect your mine that is underground?
And if this member was bothering you that much you should have come to us, we know more about players behaviors than you think.
Well as i said, the ground is protected aswell, its from bedrock to the top of the world..
As for protecting zones, i put a great deal of efford into my builds. And atm, when i log on i have a habbit of using the first 10-15 min running around my current area, checking doors, and circuts to see if anything was broken while i was offline.. This is a waste of my time and generally is a moodbreaker when allmost everyday you find a bugged door, cuz of redstone abuse..
As for the staffmember, ill tell you ingame in a pm when i see you tomorrow. I am to nice a guy. But after the last few days of getting anoyed (while i did all in my powers to help him get better at the game) ive actually had enugh..
We need some supervision on this guy for sure.
I am only doing this cuz i see him as a threat to Opticraft. As Devil said. Immature staff can kill the server.. I know for a fact that you have been dealing with 2 other members that are just as bad..
Muhnator
Edit : as for the size of the zones, im sure you allready have an idea for what kinda size space that some ppl would require.. Maby implement some sort of system were we aply for a big area, if we can prove that we would build on it. I would say my builds speak for emselves..
But i did what i could to escape gettin in the way of others, i did travel all the way north untill i hit the border b4 i started building. But that only kept me safe for a short period..
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Do you realize how big your mine is? That would mean you would reserve all the space above your mine as well and that is not what we want.
I do however understand your concerns but i just think that protective zoning has to many downfalls on an SMP server.
And remember you can always PM the admins and OP's on the forums instead of waiting for them to come in game.
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Do you realize how big your mine is? That would mean you would reserve all the space above your mine as well and that is not what we want.
I do however understand your concerns but i just think that protective zoning has to many downfalls on an SMP server.
And remember you can always PM the admins and OP's on the forums instead of waiting for them to come in game.
I do realize how big my mine is, but the only reason the above area isnt 4x bigger, is that im waiting for the reset, atm im juust waiting, and testing.. And, go to the mine and compare it to what ive built on top, theres not really a big difference. its about the same size ive take up.
You should visit supremeserver, i fail to see the downfall since the experience on the server was far better then the current opti server.. But maby its in the eye of the beholder, your op, im a builder. Not your work gettin griefed..
PM incomming.
Muhnator
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Well it also has to do with the fact that i dont believe you should be able to reserve a bunch of space below ground, you didnt make the blocks down there, why should you be the only one that can use them? To me, if i make a house above ground, that doesnt mean i own everything below it or above it.
We could sit here going over pros and cons forever but for now our current system works just fine.
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I am still concerned about the proposed economy.
I do not like compound interest of 5% every 30 mins. Its just too damn high. All someone needs to do is hang out with an anti-afk bot and they'll be rich because of the compound nature.
I'd much rather see money earned off time online (+X per X minutes online), killing mobs, etc. The interest just doesn't sound like a good idea at all.
As far as immature staff and protections go - If someone is misbehaving, report them. Classic operator is meaningless on beta, and im not going to lie, many of the current classic operators are very immature and childish, and i will not tolerate their behavior on beta.
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I understand what you are both saying I'll address each in turn. remember this is only through experience I'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't do on your server, it's your choice i can only tell you what i would like to see on a server i play on, as well as what I had on my own servers.
Protection from residence. The area you protect is limited in size, the only person who should ever have rights to protect the whole map is the host. Period. Instead the host sets the YML so you could say protect an area 256x256 from bedrock to sky, you get a large rectangle that's yours. Think of it as buying real estate, this may have part of a cave network in it, it may not. Regardless it's finite, the host can also set it so you can have more than one of these areas. It's completely customizable.
Nick it eliminates the need for staff to be involved period, if the player has the funds with iConomy they buy the protection themself with commands. but only if they have the funds to actually make the purchase. Once purchased if they want to purchase more they can via more funds, or by ranking up to allow larger sizes of property bought. Once they buy it, unless they make it public of add friends they are the only ones (aside from admins) who can ever modify any block inside the real estate. No fire, no lava, no flooding, nothing. Though they are free to destroy their own stuff. Even if somebody that doesn't belong gets in, the server TPs them out.
Nick maybe you could elaborate on what downfalls you see? On each of the servers I've been on I've never seen any downfalls with any of the protection systems. So maybe I'm just unaware.
The current system works fine for now, on SMP since resources are more valuable and more time consuming to get, you'll find out there's a lot more abuse, a lot more griefing, a lot more exploiting, and a lot more work among the community. The question you guys have to ask yourselves is how you want to handle it. It's up to you guys.
These are just suggestions and a way for you to take a peek at how some other guys did it. Oh and if anybody is wondering why I don't just set up my own server, it's because I refuse to pay monthly hosting fees when I have a great internet connection, and a functional Domain, I just need to replace some hardware, but why when I also prefer to play than to staff?
It's a great concern Optical, and those are settings that can be customized. Either in iConomy itself of with an iConomy add-on. You are free to change the interest earned, but in my experience 5% worked best for our servers. we're talking about $0.05 on the $1.00 every half hour, but you are free to change it to 1% or 0.5% or any other amount you want. Like I said feel free to ask me questions, I'm not even afraid to fire up my test server again and let you tinker on it. You'll lag like a bugger though because my 4gigs of memory are nearly always tapped out on this PC.
As far as staff goes the best solution I ever saw was a guy that said, "Sorry guys this is a new server and I am host, you're all starting at square one, those whom prove themselves will get promoted, those that don't are free to stay and play. Nothing personal and no hard feelings as I have faith that you all have the potential to be great staff, good luck and LETS GET IT ON!" it wasn't me and i wasn't staff there, but his staff was super helpful.
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Lemme get this straight. Dont u know that ops can spawn items.based on ur shop system, whenever someone's buy a thing eg diamond, an item will be spawned hence increasing the supply, when the supply increase the value of diamond will fall(this Is economics).
Secondly zoning out an area will turn the server into like a classic server, where we display our builds. DUDE this is a SURVIAVAL game not a "make the best building game" we are supposed to survive. I feel that the protection available is sufficient for us to survive, and if u say about people intruding ur mines, if u have cleared of all the visible ores no one would even bother exploring your mine.
Lastly if u say that having a standard price for things eg warps are not good, then y is opticalza still receiving donations from his classic things?havIng a warp is a convinence ESP for those people who are willing to fork out the money.we want this server to be a HUGE server, and if we give a clear distinction between those who donated and those who have not, people will feel insulted and discriminated( eg donators can light fire) so as I said warps dose not change the playing field it is just a convience for ppl who are willing to donate to the server.
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Doom, please try to use proper punctuation. And i have no idea what you mean by the fact that OPs can spawn items. we can but we never trade or sell them or even give them away.
Zoning itself is not that bad of an idea, i can just see every guest wanting a zone and the map being filled with reserved spots.
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Zones for trusted, then?
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Lemme make it simpler. If someone use prem money to buy a diamond where will the diamond come from? It's unlikely optical will go mine a diamond and give it to that guy. So I guess the plugin will "create" the diamond. So hence the total amount of diamond in total will increase and hence reduce the value of diamond.
And secondly do u reserve space in a survival server?-.- what happens if we go exploring and it becomes dark. The area is reserved and we can't make a bunker to get through the night. I mean seriously do u reserve space in single player survival mode? If u don't and u can survive y do u need to reserve in smp? If u are worried about griefers than what are operators for? As I see nick is doing a great job. So I feel there's no need to reserve space.
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Lemme make it simpler. If someone use prem money to buy a diamond where will the diamond come from? It's unlikely optical will go mine a diamond and give it to that guy. So I guess the plugin will "create" the diamond. So hence the total amount of diamond in total will increase and hence reduce the value of diamond.
TL;DR - The more diamonds there are, the less it costs.
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Protection from residence. The area you protect is limited in size, the only person who should ever have rights to protect the whole map is the host. Period. Instead the host sets the YML so you could say protect an area 256x256 from bedrock to sky, you get a large rectangle that's yours. Think of it as buying real estate, this may have part of a cave network in it, it may not. Regardless it's finite, the host can also set it so you can have more than one of these areas. It's completely customizable.
Nick it eliminates the need for staff to be involved period, if the player has the funds with iConomy they buy the protection themself with commands. but only if they have the funds to actually make the purchase. Once purchased if they want to purchase more they can via more funds, or by ranking up to allow larger sizes of property bought. Once they buy it, unless they make it public of add friends they are the only ones (aside from admins) who can ever modify any block inside the real estate. No fire, no lava, no flooding, nothing. Though they are free to destroy their own stuff. Even if somebody that doesn't belong gets in, the server TPs them out.
Nick maybe you could elaborate on what downfalls you see? On each of the servers I've been on I've never seen any downfalls with any of the protection systems. So maybe I'm just unaware.
I totally agree.
Im aware that this is a smp server, but come on, how hard is it to build a shed and survive mobs and lava ? game beaten in 5 min....
Opti has allready taken the steps towards protection, since i do belive he has alot of focus on building. Creepers dont blow up things, enderman dosent move blocks around.. Protection is the next step, and we need it. (Nick are you worried of not having anything to do as op ?, cuz its the only motivation i can spot behind your lack of intrest for protection)
All i can say is from a builders perspective, no protection sucks.. I love to make big "playgrounds" for ppl to have fun in, but atm id rather hide since getting my stuff griefed drives me nuts.
Im a huge fan of opticraft, i have a great deal of respect for opti,and most the staff, but to be honest. If protection isnt implemented at some point, this just isnt the server for me.
The only hard thing to do in beta is building. I honestly cant see any challenge in surviving on its own. I dont want to play creative, cuz this again is way to easy. "surviving" while gathering mats for mega structures, thats fun.
Muhnator
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Lemme make it simpler. If someone use prem money to buy a diamond where will the diamond come from? It's unlikely optical will go mine a diamond and give it to that guy. So I guess the plugin will "create" the diamond. So hence the total amount of diamond in total will increase and hence reduce the value of diamond.
And secondly do u reserve space in a survival server?-.- what happens if we go exploring and it becomes dark. The area is reserved and we can't make a bunker to get through the night. I mean seriously do u reserve space in single player survival mode? If u don't and u can survive y do u need to reserve in smp? If u are worried about griefers than what are operators for? As I see nick is doing a great job. So I feel there's no need to reserve space.
^This is my view^
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Lemme make it simpler. If someone use prem money to buy a diamond where will the diamond come from? It's unlikely optical will go mine a diamond and give it to that guy. So I guess the plugin will "create" the diamond. So hence the total amount of diamond in total will increase and hence reduce the value of diamond.
And secondly do u reserve space in a survival server?-.- what happens if we go exploring and it becomes dark. The area is reserved and we can't make a bunker to get through the night. I mean seriously do u reserve space in single player survival mode? If u don't and u can survive y do u need to reserve in smp? If u are worried about griefers than what are operators for? As I see nick is doing a great job. So I feel there's no need to reserve space.
Well, if you were building impressive stuff, you oppinion might not be the same.. Walls with snow on top, is hardly worth protecting..
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Lemme make it simpler. If someone use prem money to buy a diamond where will the diamond come from? It's unlikely optical will go mine a diamond and give it to that guy. So I guess the plugin will "create" the diamond. So hence the total amount of diamond in total will increase and hence reduce the value of diamond.
And secondly do u reserve space in a survival server?-.- what happens if we go exploring and it becomes dark. The area is reserved and we can't make a bunker to get through the night. I mean seriously do u reserve space in single player survival mode? If u don't and u can survive y do u need to reserve in smp? If u are worried about griefers than what are operators for? As I see nick is doing a great job. So I feel there's no need to reserve space.
Well, if you were building impressive stuff, you oppinion might not be the same.. Walls with snow on top, is hardly worth protecting..
Let me translate what you are saying into what could happen in classic. That is like saying you should only protect builder/crafter builds, because builds that recruits work hard on, but may just be small houses, are not worth protecting.
I know my builds suck, but I still am proud of them, even if they are just walls with snow ontop.
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Muhn, I am seriously appauled that you would even think that I am against suggested protection because i want peoples stuff to get griefed. I do plan on building many things on this server. I am in no way against protection, I just dont think having every guest constantly calling for protection is good for the server. Now if we were to add a builder rank, they could get protection.
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[/quote]
Let me translate what you are saying into what could happen in classic. That is like saying you should only protect builder/crafter builds, because builds that recruits work hard on, but may just be small houses, are not worth protecting.
I know my builds suck, but I still am proud of them, even if they are just walls with snow ontop.
[/quote]
You fail the see the point of my comment..
Opinions on protection is based on the players efford into the build. Of course your building deserves protection just as mutch as mine. This is why i dont understand why ppl are against protection..
But i remeber doom breeaking into my mine aswell, and having problems with respecting ppl's stuff.. We had a talk about it, and since then i havent seen anything wierd, it just feels like he still wants the window to be open for doing it again. This makes me wonder....
Muh
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I like the idea of a zoned part for good structures. Just a small part.
And muhnator I believe d00m didnt take anything?
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Muhn, I am seriously appauled that you would even think that I am against suggested protection because i want peoples stuff to get griefed. I do plan on building many things on this server. I am in no way against protection, I just dont think having every guest constantly calling for protection is good for the server. Now if we were to add a builder rank, they could get protection.
As i wrote last night. Go to supremeserver.. Its not like you just log on the server and ask for protection right away, you had to make somthing "worth" protecting..
Your comment makes no sence at all.. Whats the difference between being called to fix grief, or protecting an area ?? plz explain.. placing protection solves grief once and for all, and its solved while OP's are offline aswell..
Im still waiting for you to post the downsides to protection, ive posted many upsides..
Muh
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Let me translate what you are saying into what could happen in classic. That is like saying you should only protect builder/crafter builds, because builds that recruits work hard on, but may just be small houses, are not worth protecting.
I know my builds suck, but I still am proud of them, even if they are just walls with snow ontop.
[/quote]
You fail the see the point of my comment..
Opinions on protection is based on the players efford into the build. Of course your building deserves protection just as mutch as mine. This is why i dont understand why ppl are against protection..
But i remeber doom breeaking into my mine aswell, and having problems with respecting ppl's stuff.. We had a talk about it, and since then i havent seen anything wierd, it just feels like he still wants the window to be open for doing it again. This makes me wonder....
Muh
[/quote]
I can see your point, and it is valid.
I have joint questions for you.
1. If nothing bad is happening anymore, what is the problem?
2. Think about void to bedrock protection. Imagine you are mining, not griefing. You mine, and mine. No diamonds (I know this is not valid for you, as you have 100s) but finally you come across one. You mine it. You can't, its protected, as it is 70 layers under some protected place. How would you feel?
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I can see your point, and it is valid.
I have joint questions for you.
1. If nothing bad is happening anymore, what is the problem?
2. Think about void to bedrock protection. Imagine you are mining, not griefing. You mine, and mine. No diamonds (I know this is not valid for you, as you have 100s) but finally you come across one. You mine it. You can't, its protected, as it is 70 layers under some protected place. How would you feel?
1. Im trying to suggest a permanet solution. Just cuz the ones that didnt know how to behave is now pretending to be respectfull again, hasent solved the problem, its just been moved.. (my work irl greatly involves findig permanet solutions, and im really good at it)
2. I would turn 180 degrees and facepalm myself for mining in that area, since i must have been blind not spotting the structure above ground in the protected area. The last thing i would do, is blame others for my own mistake..
Muh
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I can see your point, and it is valid.
I have joint questions for you.
1. If nothing bad is happening anymore, what is the problem?
2. Think about void to bedrock protection. Imagine you are mining, not griefing. You mine, and mine. No diamonds (I know this is not valid for you, as you have 100s) but finally you come across one. You mine it. You can't, its protected, as it is 70 layers under some protected place. How would you feel?
1. Im trying to suggest a permanet solution. Just cuz the ones that didnt know how to behave is now pretending to be respectfull again, hasent solved the problem, its just been moved.. (my work irl greatly involves findig permanet solutions, and im really good at it)
2. I would turn 180 degrees and facepalm myself for mining in that area, since i must have been blind not spotting the structure above ground in the protected area. The last thing i would do, is blame others for my own mistake..
Muh
1. And the permanant solution is either don't ban or ban them if they do it again, no?
2. So you say you go overground, measure how far you mine exactly, then start mining, counting out each and every block? Because you can often mine 50+ blocks in a direction in a few mins without realising...
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1. And the permanant solution is either don't ban or ban them if they do it again, no?
2. So you say you go overground, measure how far you mine exactly, then start mining, counting out each and every block? Because you can often mine 50+ blocks in a direction in a few mins without realising...
1. Read the tread, im talking about protection, not banning. And since you are the staffmember i caught griefing my place, i think this is why you are tryin to troll this tread.
2. You should learn to focus more...
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1. And the permanant solution is either don't ban or ban them if they do it again, no?
2. So you say you go overground, measure how far you mine exactly, then start mining, counting out each and every block? Because you can often mine 50+ blocks in a direction in a few mins without realising...
1. Read the tread, im talking about protection, not banning. And since you are the staffmember i caught griefing my place, i think this is why you are tryin to troll this tread.
2. You should learn to focus more...
1. Your accusation of "Grief" is leaving something totally outside your house to try and help you. Then you say I am a troll? Not exactly the best excuse I have ever heard...
2. So I take it you get out you map, and spend half an hour trying to map out your exact mining route, then finally do it, counting it out exactly without distractions? Either you are lying, the real troll here, or don't realise that Minecraft is JUST A GAME.
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1. Your accusation of "Grief" is leaving something totally outside your house to try and help you. Then you say I am a troll? Not exactly the best excuse I have ever heard...
2. So I take it you get out you map, and spend half an hour trying to map out your exact mining route, then finally do it, counting it out exactly without distractions? Either you are lying, the real troll here, or don't realise that Minecraft is JUST A GAME.
Im gona stop this conversation right now, since your abusing the great tread Devil has made, to try and cover up the mess you have created.
Ive contacted the staff and told em the full story, and im waiting for actions to be done.. Like i told you ingame "Just leave me alone, ive had enugh"
Sorry Devil for this abuse of your tread
Muhnator
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1. Your accusation of "Grief" is leaving something totally outside your house to try and help you. Then you say I am a troll? Not exactly the best excuse I have ever heard...
2. So I take it you get out you map, and spend half an hour trying to map out your exact mining route, then finally do it, counting it out exactly without distractions? Either you are lying, the real troll here, or don't realise that Minecraft is JUST A GAME.
Im gona stop this conversation right now, since your abusing the great tread Devil has made, to try and cover up the mess you have created.
Ive contacted the staff and told em the full story, and im waiting for actions to be done.. Like i told you ingame "Just leave me alone, ive had enugh"
Sorry Devil for this abuse of your tread
Muhnator
I have no idea what u all r talking abt. But my main thing is that if u want to build super builds and are lazy to search for admin when it gets griefed. U should built on classic instead.as this is not a building server, it's a survival server :3
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Muhn, I understand what u are saying but im going to wait till I get home to respond.
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Reserving a area is like zoning out the spawn. Many players already find it annoying to be able to see iron ore in the spawn and yet not able to mine it. So if a few muhnator sized mines and build is zoned, it will take a day of walking before getting out of the spawn. And it will seem like u own majority of the land in opticraft which = to alot of ores stones etc. Just because of ur building on land. AND I only mined in the cave FYI!!
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Reserving a area is like zoning out the spawn. Many players already find it annoying to be able to see iron ore in the spawn and yet not able to mine it. So if a few muhnator sized mines and build is zoned, it will take a day of walking before getting out of the spawn. And it will seem like u own majority of the land in opticraft which = to alot of ores stones etc. Just because of ur building on land. AND I only mined in the cave FYI!!
Your argument makes no sence at all..
If you would take the time to actually think a bit, you would realise how far you are from the thing im talking about..
The area you are building in atm, is as far away from the spawn as possible. I traveld for about 15 minuttes to get to it. How did you get there, you used my /home and started building in this area..
Im gona try for 1 last time and make it sink into your head..
I wana build great stuff that can be enjoyed by other players, while at the same time not having to worry about it getting destroyed.
If you cant grasp this thought, i suggest you stop posting. You chose to "abuse" my /home, witch is as far away from the spawn as possible, now grow up and deal with it..
Muhnator
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Reserving a area is like zoning out the spawn. Many players already find it annoying to be able to see iron ore in the spawn and yet not able to mine it. So if a few muhnator sized mines and build is zoned, it will take a day of walking before getting out of the spawn. And it will seem like u own majority of the land in opticraft which = to alot of ores stones etc. Just because of ur building on land. AND I only mined in the cave FYI!!
Your argument makes no sence at all..
If you would take the time to actually think a bit, you would realise how far you are from the thing im talking about..
The area you are building in atm, is as far away from the spawn as possible. I traveld for about 15 minuttes to get to it. How did you get there, you used my /home and started building in this area..
Im gona try for 1 last time and make it sink into your head..
I wana build great stuff that can be enjoyed by other players, while at the same time not having to worry about it getting destroyed.
If you cant grasp this thought, i suggest you stop posting. You chose to "abuse" my /home, witch is as far away from the spawn as possible, now grow up and deal with it..
Muhnator
You obviously are angry, so did not read his post at all. He is comparing a reserved land to spawn, in that you may see things you want, but you can't get them. That is his first point. His second point, is sayin a few "muhnator sized" builds, not muhnator builds, would make free land very far from the spawn.
I fail to see any anger at you in his post, Muh.
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You all need to calm down.
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You all need to calm down.
Agreed. Sorry.
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Thank your Devil, Muhn. To the other idiots, please think before you post. It pains me to read that stuff.
Now, about protections.
I am all for protections - within reason.
a 256x256x128 protection (assuming Z is the height axis), is too large in my opinion. The way i envision them being acquired and used is such that you will have to purchase them from a shop using a currency. This will take some time to earn, and you'll get a smaller area. Something like 96x96x128 or 64x64x128. You can then place multiple blocks to protect your area side by side. The key here is that it will be hard to get enough $$ to purchase these protection blocks, such that only those who have been building for some time can afford them. I would also advise that they only get used outside the spawn area, but i am unsure on how that could be enforced.
Anyhow - this is a while off. We first need the new map, an economy/shop system in place, and some other backend things - the new dedicated server, vote rewards, donation rewards and such, before protections will be a major priority.
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vote rewards
What is this?
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donation rewards and such
Will the donations we donated toward the classic server count for beta? If not, I won't really mind donating more as long as it's not over $20, it will just take a wile to get some money for it.
(I'm mostly looking at the titles, not the worlds)
an economy/shop system in place
Economy/shop sounds cool, I'm looking forward to that.
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vote rewards
What is this?
Vote sites promote the server. www.xtremetop100.com/minecraft - for example. Vote rewards = you vote for us, an you get a reward ingame, such as a diamond or some iron ore for every vote you make.
Mr_Mr_mr - I am unusure how i will deal with donations from classic & beta. At this stage i think they will be seperate things.
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vote rewards
What is this?
Vote sites promote the server. www.xtremetop100.com/minecraft - for example. Vote rewards = you vote for us, an you get a reward ingame, such as a diamond or some iron ore for every vote you make.
Mr_Mr_mr - I am unusure how i will deal with donations from classic & beta. At this stage i think they will be seperate things.
Oh right, okay, thanks :) . I will vote when one goes up.
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I am confused, he was saying that we werent doing our jobs, and i was restating something i have seen before about we are not on payed schedule... sorry.
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Thank your Devil, Muhn. To the other idiots, please think before you post. It pains me to read that stuff.
Now, about protections.
I am all for protections - within reason.
a 256x256x128 protection (assuming Z is the height axis), is too large in my opinion. The way i envision them being acquired and used is such that you will have to purchase them from a shop using a currency. This will take some time to earn, and you'll get a smaller area. Something like 96x96x128 or 64x64x128. You can then place multiple blocks to protect your area side by side. The key here is that it will be hard to get enough $$ to purchase these protection blocks, such that only those who have been building for some time can afford them. I would also advise that they only get used outside the spawn area, but i am unsure on how that could be enforced.
Anyhow - this is a while off. We first need the new map, an economy/shop system in place, and some other backend things - the new dedicated server, vote rewards, donation rewards and such, before protections will be a major priority.
Just asking is there a need to zone till bedrock? I mean some ppl build alot of hOuses and only have one mine, so if it's only the house won't it be better to just zone of lesser, as in not to bed rock? I hope this zoning will implement only after 1.9 comes out。
And finally a qns for muh, did ur builds in classic get zoned to prevent greif?and FYI I use /home iam4ever and it was HER who ask me build my damn house beside hers. I wasn't even thinking of building so damn far away in the first place, all my builds are near the spawn, and as far as I know only the farms got griefed none of my other builds have been. So if u don't want to get grief, ask nick to fly to a super far area and then set ur home there. And do u think u are so popular that every guest will teleport to your home?
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I'm not exactly sure about zoning to bedrock.On one side people make great mines that should protected, but on the other side, zoning to bedrock is basically reserving blocks that you didnt make. I just dont think that just because u made a house above ground, you are entitled to all the ores below it. You are basically reserving resources for yourself.
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I'm not exactly sure about zoning to bedrock.On one side people make great mines that should protected, but on the other side, zoning to bedrock is basically reserving blocks that you didnt make. I just dont think that just because u made a house above ground, you are entitled to all the ores below it. You are basically reserving resources for yourself.
That's what I was trying to say.
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If you don't reserve to bedrock, you cannot have a basement or anything below ground. If you can suggest something more adequate, feel free to.
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Lemme get this straight. Dont u know that ops can spawn items.based on ur shop system, whenever someone's buy a thing eg diamond, an item will be spawned hence increasing the supply, when the supply increase the value of diamond will fall(this Is economics).
Secondly zoning out an area will turn the server into like a classic server, where we display our builds. DUDE this is a SURVIAVAL game not a "make the best building game" we are supposed to survive. I feel that the protection available is sufficient for us to survive, and if u say about people intruding ur mines, if u have cleared of all the visible ores no one would even bother exploring your mine.
Lastly if u say that having a standard price for things eg warps are not good, then y is opticalza still receiving donations from his classic things?havIng a warp is a convinence ESP for those people who are willing to fork out the money.we want this server to be a HUGE server, and if we give a clear distinction between those who donated and those who have not, people will feel insulted and discriminated( eg donators can light fire) so as I said warps dose not change the playing field it is just a convience for ppl who are willing to donate to the server.
I'm going to do my best here Doom, no offense but I can't always understand your meaning.
I'm not sure where you got this shop idea from but no, nobody spawns anything. People fill a chest with one type of item that they have acquired themselves through whatever means. The biggest abuse of this I have seen is immature staff spawning the things they fill their chest with. The solution to that problem was to remove the player from staff. You are correct though if the supply does increase by magical means the demand does fall, that is economics, so you have to beat it into staff's head to NOT SPAWN ITEMS. There's no point in survival, it's not what survival is about if they want to do that they need to go play creative. Survival is about rewards for hard work, skill, and talent.
You are incorrect about your ideals of survival, well I suppose an opinion is always subjective, but i urge you to visit other servers and have a peek. At it's heart Minecraft is a creativity sandbox, SMP like Single Player Mode, is first and foremost about doing what you can, with what you can get with an added element of danger involved. (See: "Woohoo check out my awesome castle I hand built with stuff I dig up single handedly... OH NO A CREEPER! *BOOM* Aww man...")
Doom, why is that ability and distinction a bad thing? As a Reverend it is my firm opinion that in this day and age people are getting too used to being handed things and need a severe reality check because life isn't like that. Why so adamant against protection? Let's look at this in parallel with a real life example. Say you buy a farm, it's your land, your property you bought it. Through hard work and blood sweat and tears you tracked down this plot of land and settled it. Over the course of time you improved it, made it better, added a well, built a house, planted an orchard. Later you discover there's oil on your property. Should some other guy be able to burrow under your farm through the strata and take your oil? I mean after all you just bought the land you saw on the top. Should people be allowed to come and camp in your fields whenever they want? Wouldn't you put up at least a fence on your boarders, if only to keep your livestock from escaping?
As far as donations, I'm not saying the current set-up is bad. I'm just saying when people are given a choice you'd be surprised at how many will opt to choose.
Zoning itself is not that bad of an idea, i can just see every guest wanting a zone and the map being filled with reserved spots.
Yes but Nick, if you saw, I mentioned earlier players don't have to request an op or any other staff to set up this type of protection, they do it them self. If you are called about it it will only be because they don't understand how to do it, not because they need you to do it for them.
You see the map filled with reserved spots now, they have houses on top of them. :) Same thing, and as I mentioned the zones are set size wise by the Host.
Lemme make it simpler. If someone use prem money to buy a diamond where will the diamond come from? It's unlikely optical will go mine a diamond and give it to that guy. So I guess the plugin will "create" the diamond. So hence the total amount of diamond in total will increase and hence reduce the value of diamond.
And secondly do u reserve space in a survival server?-.- what happens if we go exploring and it becomes dark. The area is reserved and we can't make a bunker to get through the night. I mean seriously do u reserve space in single player survival mode? If u don't and u can survive y do u need to reserve in smp? If u are worried about griefers than what are operators for? As I see nick is doing a great job. So I feel there's no need to reserve space.
The diamond comes from a chest in the seller's home. It may be unlikely optical would go mine a diamond just to give it away, but he might sell any extra ones he dug up. The plugin creates nothing except a means for players to trade items for currency, and vice versa.
Yes I do reserve space in a survival server, it's called my home/base. it's usually a large building or a building with a fence around the surrounding land. If the protected area isn't marked via fence the guy who owns it either just set it up, or is a jerk. And yes I do reserve space in a single player, again it's called my home/base. I return to it regularly, I have a bed there, my storage, it's well lit, and a safe place to spend the nights.
Operators are not there only to prevent griefing, in my experience they are there to resolve any issues that arise on the server. Nick is doing a great job, but he's not there 24/7 either, this will make Nick's job easier.
I totally agree.
Im aware that this is a smp server, but come on, how hard is it to build a shed and survive mobs and lava ? game beaten in 5 min....
Opti has allready taken the steps towards protection, since i do belive he has alot of focus on building. Creepers dont blow up things, enderman dosent move blocks around.. Protection is the next step, and we need it. (Nick are you worried of not having anything to do as op ?, cuz its the only motivation i can spot behind your lack of intrest for protection)
All i can say is from a builders perspective, no protection sucks.. I love to make big "playgrounds" for ppl to have fun in, but atm id rather hide since getting my stuff griefed drives me nuts.
Im a huge fan of opticraft, i have a great deal of respect for opti,and most the staff, but to be honest. If protection isnt implemented at some point, this just isnt the server for me.
The only hard thing to do in beta is building. I honestly cant see any challenge in surviving on its own. I dont want to play creative, cuz this again is way to easy. "surviving" while gathering mats for mega structures, thats fun.
Muhnator
We're agreed on the SMP experience. Building with danger added and limited resources is not just fun it's super fun. On a server without an economy what do I do when I run out of diamond? On a server with an economy I see if anybody has extra they want to sell benefiting us both in our adventures in building. In my opinion this game is a simulation of what I must have been like to settle the United States around 1776.
I can see your point, and it is valid.
I have joint questions for you.
1. If nothing bad is happening anymore, what is the problem?
2. Think about void to bedrock protection. Imagine you are mining, not griefing. You mine, and mine. No diamonds (I know this is not valid for you, as you have 100s) but finally you come across one. You mine it. You can't, its protected, as it is 70 layers under some protected place. How would you feel?
1. Even if nothing bad is happening now what happens when the server goes public and a flood of people join? A reactive stance is a sure way to loose any battle, being proactive and trying to prepare for an emergency is usually a better solution.
2. Whenever this happened to me on multiple servers I thought to myself "Aww dang I hit somebode Else's land, that diamond is theirs lucky dog... I should build a wall here so they know they have a neighbor and mine in a different direction." Then i usually went to the surface to check out their house.
I have no idea what u all r talking abt. But my main thing is that if u want to build super builds and are lazy to search for admin when it gets griefed. U should built on classic instead.as this is not a building server, it's a survival server :3
That is counterpoint to the design of the game actually, and why waste the time to bother an admin when I can protect it myself if given the proper tools. If i have to call somebody for protection it's a waste of my time and the staff member's time. Time i could better spend building and mining, and time he can better spend doing the same or enriching the community.
Reserving a area is like zoning out the spawn. Many players already find it annoying to be able to see iron ore in the spawn and yet not able to mine it. So if a few muhnator sized mines and build is zoned, it will take a day of walking before getting out of the spawn. And it will seem like u own majority of the land in opticraft which = to alot of ores stones etc. Just because of ur building on land.
The players that find spawn protection and such annoying are the kind that do not respect public and private property, and you do not want them on the server anyway, trust me, they are a constant source of both community drama and griefing. Muh's mine might be on the large side but that doesn't mean the settings optical put in place would allow him to claim the entire space he has now. I regularly on a new server walk out from spawn more than one day anyway to find a nice secluded spot to avoid griefing anyway, those that do not are either bold, staff, or lazy. When buying a home later in life don't you plan on looking around for the perfect place?
Thank your Devil, Muhn.
Now, about protections.
I am all for protections - within reason.
a 256x256x128 protection (assuming Z is the height axis), is too large in my opinion. The way i envision them being acquired and used is such that you will have to purchase them from a shop using a currency. This will take some time to earn, and you'll get a smaller area. Something like 96x96x128 or 64x64x128. You can then place multiple blocks to protect your area side by side. The key here is that it will be hard to get enough $$ to purchase these protection blocks, such that only those who have been building for some time can afford them. I would also advise that they only get used outside the spawn area, but i am unsure on how that could be enforced.
Anyhow - this is a while off. We first need the new map, an economy/shop system in place, and some other backend things - the new dedicated server, vote rewards, donation rewards and such, before protections will be a major priority.
No worries Optical it's what I do. Knowledge should be freely available.
Size it how you like Optical, the system is completely flexible, but I implore you keep the sky to bedrock setting. My suggestion is hop in game and path out a footprint, when you feel it's of the appropriate size for a protected base/home use that as your setting, and keep in mind each rank can have it's own setting.
You are correct sir, it does take a while to protect everything using the currency, but that's part of the fun, playing buying and selling until your home is protected, also a reason why the 5% isn't as bad as you think it is. Money goes fast with the active players, and you'll find the more active and helpful ones never abuse the money and are some of the biggest and best community players. you can also buy and sell(or give away) these protected homes.
As far as outside spawn only, that's simple as host you have unlimited permissions. Protect spawn for free as far as placing and destroying with whatever permissions you desire, then walk away after you get it set. it won't effect your normal playing at all.
I think protections should be a big priority before the server goes public, when you get a flow of new players you'll find a lot of griefing. That won't settle down for a while. Also for the record don't expect me to vote I dislike vote systems as being a tech I do not trust websites I do not know. :)
Just asking is there a need to zone till bedrock? I mean some ppl build alot of hOuses and only have one mine, so if it's only the house won't it be better to just zone of lesser, as in not to bed rock? I hope this zoning will implement only after 1.9 comes out。
And finally a qns for muh, did ur builds in classic get zoned to prevent greif?and FYI I use /home iam4ever and it was HER who ask me build my damn house beside hers. I wasn't even thinking of building so damn far away in the first place, all my builds are near the spawn, and as far as I know only the farms got griefed none of my other builds have been. So if u don't want to get grief, ask nick to fly to a super far area and then set ur home there. And do u think u are so popular that every guest will teleport to your home?
Oh yes there is absolutely a need to zone to bedrock. I have built extensive homes with mines and underground structures, as well as biodomes underwater(check out my treefarm, then realize i also build mob grinders, animal spawns, wheat and sugar, as well as cactus and mushroom farms, the only way I can do this is by digging deep. I've had some of these structures tunneled into and griefed before. Just because you dig into somebody's wheat field and all the wheat is ripe does not mean it is yours for the taking... :-( I put a lot of hard work and effort into building that, which i sell to the community as cakes and bread and wheat and seeds for a reasonable price. And I use those profits to protect my lands and buy iron which I may have completely mined out of my own mines.
I'm not exactly sure about zoning to bedrock.On one side people make great mines that should protected, but on the other side, zoning to bedrock is basically reserving blocks that you didnt make. I just dont think that just because u made a house above ground, you are entitled to all the ores below it. You are basically reserving resources for yourself.
This goes back to the real life real estate thing. Did you make any of the soil or under the topsoil on your own house? But you still own it right? What's the difference between there and in game? I'm not an unreasonable guy when it comes to my homes in minecraft. When I'm online I invite people over, I teach them things, I farm items, I build decent structures, and I sell surplus things at reasonable prices. but when I'm not playing i like to know my lands are safe, from the bedrock (where the grinders usually are) to the sky (usually an observation deck).
Man that's a huge post, but you guys set this topic on fire today while I was gone. LOL
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lemme give a very simple example. assuming 1.9 comes out, u are the first person in the server and u built huge buildings all around the spawn. then u ask opticalz or an admin to zone the whole area cause u built in it. now all the other players will have to walk past the spawn, then walk past ur giant builds, then find a space that have not been zone.
There is a high possibility that some people may randomly build castles around the spawn, but not dig underneath. and then they will ask the entire area to be zone, hence claiming huge chunks. I m not really against reserving, but with reserving are you trying to tell other people that if you didn't zone out your land, getting grief is your own fault?
Simplest suggestion limit the amount of reservation for players, also limit the size of reservation. If the players build outside their reserve then it is at their own risk.
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If you don't reserve to bedrock, you cannot have a basement or anything below ground. If you can suggest something more adequate, feel free to.
Its perfectly reasonable to zone to the lowest part of the basements. I don't know many basements that go to bedrock ;)
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If you don't reserve to bedrock, you cannot have a basement or anything below ground. If you can suggest something more adequate, feel free to.
Is there no way to reserve like 20 blocks underground? Plus, if the first level is zoned they shouldn't be able to get into the basement anyways unless they tunnel in which is quite a bit of work to just grief.
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lemme give a very simple example. assuming 1.9 comes out, u are the first person in the server and u built huge buildings all around the spawn. then u ask opticalz or an admin to zone the whole area cause u built in it. now all the other players will have to walk past the spawn, then walk past ur giant builds, then find a space that have not been zone.
There is a high possibility that some people may randomly build castles around the spawn, but not dig underneath. and then they will ask the entire area to be zone, hence claiming huge chunks. I m not really against reserving, but with reserving are you trying to tell other people that if you didn't zone out your land, getting grief is your own fault?
Simplest suggestion limit the amount of reservation for players, also limit the size of reservation. If the players build outside their reserve then it is at their own risk.
The first step there is incorrect, the player uses a wooden axe to create the bounding box. Then uses /commands to create their own residence. Each block costs a certain amount of credits to protect. Each player has a limit to how large the bounding box van be. If either of these values are exceeded the residence is not created. You last sentence is on track with exactly what we are talking about.
If you don't reserve to bedrock, you cannot have a basement or anything below ground. If you can suggest something more adequate, feel free to.
Its perfectly reasonable to zone to the lowest part of the basements. I don't know many basements that go to bedrock ;)
You've never seen my basements on an SMP server. Or many other people's either. :)
If you don't reserve to bedrock, you cannot have a basement or anything below ground. If you can suggest something more adequate, feel free to.
Is there no way to reserve like 20 blocks underground? Plus, if the first level is zoned they shouldn't be able to get into the basement anyways unless they tunnel in which is quite a bit of work to just grief.
Yes, there is, but I will not be giving any of the commands here just yet.
That's exactly what we're talking about, it has happened to me personally, more than once, not to grief my home but to mine every possible mineral underneath it.
Also just for the record I just had a player on this very bets server randomly pop into my house like it was nothing special and proceed to run down my mineshaft where I was like he owned the joint. I was none too pleased as he never even bothered to ask. this is exactly the kind of thing residence prevents. I blocked him into a corner, asked him what he was doing in my home, to which he replied "spawning" (whatever that meant) and I seriously contemplated dumping him into the lake of lava under our feet Spleef style. Instead I asked him to leave and informed him the next time he wanted to visit somebody's house it would be polite to ask them first. Next time I might not be so nice.
**Side note for a PVP arena a spleef arena might be just the ticket. Now you're having fun with science... and lava! *dig dig dig dig*
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Thank you Opti for understanding my conserns
And Thank you Devil for having the typing skill i so obviusly lack.
Im gona try 1 last time to make my point in this tread, since i honestly feel a bit silly posting here, when there are ppl (Devil) that put so mutch more efford into it, and obviusly has alot more knowledge then me..
The things that allow a person to make great stuff in beta is his mine. Both building materials, and ores comes from this mine. Ive done the huge mistake (in heinsight) to invite struggeling ppl into my mine, to give em an idea of how to make a proffitable mine.
Few has listend (Turtle you fecking rock now, and im happy to se you pwn the game), but ive caught other just breaking into my mine when im not looking.. (not gona go there again, since they spam this tread with useless comments)
I said in a small discussion we had on the server last night "i care less about my buildings then my mine" ppl, did not understand this comment..
My mine is what allows me to build what i do.. If my mine is compomised, my entire game is compromised.. And this is why i belive protection should go to the bedrock. Its not like the materials in the protected zone mines itself, i still have to got down and spend the time mining it.
The reason for the intrest in my mine is so big, is that i leave alot of ore behind (for a rainy day). Further more, i make test tunnels, were i leave all ores hanging in the tunnel, to get an idea of were in the ground im at.(yes there are pattens that make sence)
I invited the wrong ppl, and now i pay the price for it...
Beta is wast.. Most comments in here concerning problems about mining and running into other ppl's protected zones, are not thought tru, and imo is ppl that are fighting to keep the window open for exploiting..
It's up to the player , to find a spot that can be protected without interfeering with other ppl. This is why i traveld far far away from the spawn when i first joined the server. I knew i would take up a wast amount of space, an in respect of other playes i traveld to the border..
(Dont you think that i would like to have my HQ right next to the spawn, so that everyone that joins would see it ?. This is why i build, it feeds my ego, and im honest about it)
But i allways put respect of other ppl b4 that, and thats the reason my settlement is far from anything that was built when i first joined. (now its getting crowded)
Im only posting and suggesting to make what is imo the best way to run beta. Ive tried many other beta servers, and protection works fine, its only ppl that havent tried it, that still doubdt it (or ppl that want to be able to exploit, since they know it kills any form of grief or exploit permanently)
Im sorry about my sometimes rage'ish comments, but it makes me boil inside to see ppl that ive caught griefing, trying to trow this epic tread of balance, just to make sure they can exploit, and not even putting any efford into their comments.
English is my 3. language, and posting like this takes me ages, but i do it for Opticraft, and in the end, the entire comunity and myself.
Muhnator
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Well I stated my opinion and i am not going to argue it any further. Whatever optical decides i support.